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Not to begrudge anyone's generosity, but if my parents / I had worked to save for my tuition completely and I got no benefit in a scenario like this, I think I'

Not to begrudge anyone's generosity, but if my parents / I had worked to save for my tuition completely and I got no benefit in a scenario like this, I think I'd feel a little frustrated. Of course you'd be lucky to have had that position in life, but frustrated nonetheless. Why didn't I just take out loans like everyone else?

scarface74 7y ago
As you said, you got the benefit of having parents that are able to afford to send you to college debt free...
- jimmydddd 7y ago
  Some of the students who took loans might also have parents who are able to afford it, but the students decided to take loans instead.
  - ujoh1 7y ago
    Hello See also how you can start making steady daily extra living incomes on virta stock trading without you risking your money and your investment visit the website here http://www.virtatrade.com/index.php http://www.virtatrade.com/index.php for more details
- supernova87a 7y ago
  Maybe you think that the only people who save and pay for their kids' college are rich people. Probably that they can "afford" not to be the beneficiaries of generosity like this as well. Far more common is for middle class (and immigrants) to be in this situation, not even to mention the 2-shift-a-day poor parents who paid outright to stay out of debt, worked overtime, scrimped, and planned ahead. They get nothing. I'm sure they can afford not getting any gift... As I said, I don't begrudge a generous benefactor's actions that help people. It's his choice. It would be a wholly different matter if government took this approach. In that case, you'd better be dammed sure that someone else getting something and you nothing, isn't going to remain at "be grateful for what you have". Cf. that company experiment a few years ago (or think through if it applied at your job) that everyone got paid the same. You're probably not so eager in that case.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    From a purely logical standpoint, why struggle to put your kids through college when student loans are available? They have a longer time horizon to pay the loans off than you do as a parent. Almost every financial planner says that you should put your own retirement before your kids college for the same reason. If you can afford to save for your own future and pay for your kids to go to college then of course that’s different. I have a step child that I haven’t saved a penny for them to go to college. But, between cash flowing what we can and loans he will have the opportunity to go. Yes, I plan to help her pay the loans after she graduates or probably pay most of them myself - but not at the expense of our retirement.
    - supernova87a 7y ago
      Wow, well that's probably a story worth a thread of its own. A convergence of demographic shifts, generational priorities, economic policies (interest rate + cheap money), and personal circumstances.
    - throw20102010 7y ago
      Lots of lower middle class families have been deep in debt at some point. They know how tough it can be trying to pay off debt, especially with an entry level job right out of college. Since they know how tough that is, they want to sacrifice for their children to give them the best possible chance at living a good life. That's why some people struggle to put their kids through college even though there's "free money" available. It's not hard to understand, because "free" loans aren't free, even if the college graduate does have a decent chance at being able to pay them off over the next decade. I'm not saying that parents that let their kids take the loans are bad parents, but it shouldn't be hard to see why some parents don't want their kid to be saddled with debt upon graduation.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        I understand the emotion of it. But, your kids can borrow money to go to college. You can’t borrow money to retire and it’s a lot harder to borrow money if $life_happens to you as a parent especially for lower middle class families. If you as a parent want to help your kids after they graduate to pay off their loans once your own situation is secure, help them pay for their loans out of a combination of current cash flows and savings you might have for it. If $life_happens as a parent and the child can’t pay their student loans, they can get deferments, income based repayments etc. If the parents don’t have savings because they were trying to avoid student loans and then they lose their jobs or are unable to work, then what?
gridlockd 7y ago
I would go one step further and say if you don't have a major loan these days, you're a sucker. Get a loan at low interest, buy up assets, get additional loans on those assets as they appreciate. That's basically the basis of this whole "economic boom". You can rely on the Fed being unable to raise interest rates, or this house of cards will collapse and everyone will need another bailout. The Fed keeps talking about low inflation while asset prices have exploded on their watch, it's hilarious.
- smudgymcscmudge 7y ago
  Point me to these assets that are guaranteed to go up. I’ll force my kids to get loans and I’ll invest in these instead.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    I suppose the tongue-in-cheek was lost on a lot of people here, this is not financial advice, especially not for the average Joe. Having said that, this is what companies (and certain wealthy individuals) have been doing for a while now: Get cheap loans, buy back your own stock, buy more real estate, drive up the value, get more loans based on those inflated valuations. You may be able to do this as an average individual, that's what happened in 2008 when every schmuck would get a mortgage based on another already mortgaged house. The difference is, when you're an individual the government is not going to bail you out personally (unless maybe Liz Warren or Bernie Sanders are in power). You can at least declare personal bankruptcy if you didn't incorporate. Now the reason why this is a fairly safe bet today is that the governments of the world absolutely don't want to repeat 2008. They will create any amount of money necessary to keep the party going. This means asset prices will rise due to pure inflation. Anyone with cash or long-term bonds will be left holding the bag, which also coincides with the interest of the heavily indebted governments.
- season8sucked 7y ago
  This is terrible advice and I truly hope you aren’t giving anybody (in public or private) financial advice.
hatmatrix 7y ago
There are also additional scenarios of frustration like ambitiously graduating a semester early, or failing to graduate with this class on account of missing credits. In the latter case you might have consoled yourself of the lost wages for a semester, and then you hear this happens...
RobLach 7y ago
You believe your parents or you would have worked harder than the parents of those students or those students; who have debt?
- LanceH 7y ago
  Exactly. One family takes a loan and a vacation every year, the other works over holiday...
mikeash 7y ago
It sure sounds to me like you’re begrudging this generosity. Be grateful for what you have. Don’t be resentful for what others get, it only hurts you.
rdl 7y ago
I'd be a lot sadder if I'd scraped and taken loans and graduated the previous year from that school with a lot of debt. Even worse if you rushed through and graduated early or something (maybe to save money?).
mlevental 7y ago
other people getting lucky certainly brings out the worst in people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNo_Hhm5r8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNo_Hhm5r8o
siruncledrew 7y ago
What percentage of people legitimately make financial decisions on the assumption a rich benefactor is going to cover them in the future? This is the benefit of being in the right place at the right time. I'm sure people would be salty to not this windfall, but who knows maybe they will be lucky somewhere else.
MisterBastahrd 7y ago
Frustrated? In this situation, YOU got a free education regardless. I paid every freaking dime for my education out of pocket by sacrificing my nights and weekends during college. For plenty of people, college was a time where they made a ton of life-long friends. For me? College was a time where I spent half my time on campus passed out in the student union or library trying to get a bit of a nap between classes so that I could work an 8-6 schedule at night.
analog31 7y ago
The idea that nobody should get a goody if I can't get a goody, is the beginning of the race to the bottom.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  Maybe - but you should also recognize that if you made sacrifices and spent a lot of money on something it would be annoying to discover that if you had made a less fiscally responsible choice it would have wound up working much better for you.
- refurb 7y ago
  Does this also apply to the common complaints against the 1%? Just be happy that they have a ton of money even though you don’t?
  - drusepth 7y ago
    I think it applies when you make the argument "They shouldn't be able to make millions if I can't also make millions."
- throw20102010 7y ago
  I think GP has a point that needs to be addressed if we ever want to do a debt forgiveness on a large scale without alienating a bunch of hard working people. It's not about keeping people from getting goodies, it's about rewarding responsible behavior. Imagine two students, Andy and Brady. Andy decided that it would be best to get good grades, so he took out more loans and worked less. Andy had more time to study so he got mostly A grades. Brady decided it would be best to get graduate debt free, so he worked long hours instead of taking more loans. Brady had less time to study so he got more B grades. At the typical US university, you might be able to call their outcomes balanced- Andy can maybe get a better job because he got better grades, but has to pay off more debt. Brady won't get quite as good of a job because of his B grades, but gets to start saving for retirement faster because he is debt free. But then some billionaire (call him Robert Smith, if we're trying to come up with the most generic name ever) comes and pays off Andy's debt. Now instead of a balanced outcome Andy is debt free and has a better job. Which is great for Andy, so I'm not saying the billionaire should't pay off his debt. But you have to think that Brady is probably kicking himself right now for not making a different set of choices. He's now behind in the race, and being behind sticks with you for a long time when it comes to careers. If we could find a solution that kept Brady from feeling bad, but still gave Andy his goodies, then I'm sure that most people would agree that is a good outcome. An easy one that comes to mind is instead of saying, "I'm paying off all your student loan debt," Smith could say, "I'm giving you each $100k." That way Andy and Brady both get goodies, and Andy doesn't have crippling debt any more. Brady also doesn't kick himself for working hard during college because he now has a nice sum of money to do something responsible with (invest, save for retirement, down payment on a house, etc.).
door5 7y ago
I'm more upset that a single person has 5 billion dollars in the first place. Why don't we have a wealth tax on billionaires so that no one has student debt and we don't have to rely on the isolated generosity of individual billionaires?

scarface74 7y ago

As you said, you got the benefit of having parents that are able to afford to send you to college debt free...

jimmydddd 7y ago
Some of the students who took loans might also have parents who are able to afford it, but the students decided to take loans instead.
- ujoh1 7y ago
  Hello See also how you can start making steady daily extra living incomes on virta stock trading without you risking your money and your investment visit the website here http://www.virtatrade.com/index.php http://www.virtatrade.com/index.php for more details
supernova87a 7y ago
Maybe you think that the only people who save and pay for their kids' college are rich people. Probably that they can "afford" not to be the beneficiaries of generosity like this as well. Far more common is for middle class (and immigrants) to be in this situation, not even to mention the 2-shift-a-day poor parents who paid outright to stay out of debt, worked overtime, scrimped, and planned ahead. They get nothing. I'm sure they can afford not getting any gift... As I said, I don't begrudge a generous benefactor's actions that help people. It's his choice. It would be a wholly different matter if government took this approach. In that case, you'd better be dammed sure that someone else getting something and you nothing, isn't going to remain at "be grateful for what you have". Cf. that company experiment a few years ago (or think through if it applied at your job) that everyone got paid the same. You're probably not so eager in that case.
- scarface74 7y ago
  From a purely logical standpoint, why struggle to put your kids through college when student loans are available? They have a longer time horizon to pay the loans off than you do as a parent. Almost every financial planner says that you should put your own retirement before your kids college for the same reason. If you can afford to save for your own future and pay for your kids to go to college then of course that’s different. I have a step child that I haven’t saved a penny for them to go to college. But, between cash flowing what we can and loans he will have the opportunity to go. Yes, I plan to help her pay the loans after she graduates or probably pay most of them myself - but not at the expense of our retirement.
  - supernova87a 7y ago
    Wow, well that's probably a story worth a thread of its own. A convergence of demographic shifts, generational priorities, economic policies (interest rate + cheap money), and personal circumstances.
  - throw20102010 7y ago
    Lots of lower middle class families have been deep in debt at some point. They know how tough it can be trying to pay off debt, especially with an entry level job right out of college. Since they know how tough that is, they want to sacrifice for their children to give them the best possible chance at living a good life. That's why some people struggle to put their kids through college even though there's "free money" available. It's not hard to understand, because "free" loans aren't free, even if the college graduate does have a decent chance at being able to pay them off over the next decade. I'm not saying that parents that let their kids take the loans are bad parents, but it shouldn't be hard to see why some parents don't want their kid to be saddled with debt upon graduation.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      I understand the emotion of it. But, your kids can borrow money to go to college. You can’t borrow money to retire and it’s a lot harder to borrow money if $life_happens to you as a parent especially for lower middle class families. If you as a parent want to help your kids after they graduate to pay off their loans once your own situation is secure, help them pay for their loans out of a combination of current cash flows and savings you might have for it. If $life_happens as a parent and the child can’t pay their student loans, they can get deferments, income based repayments etc. If the parents don’t have savings because they were trying to avoid student loans and then they lose their jobs or are unable to work, then what?

gridlockd 7y ago

I would go one step further and say if you don't have a major loan these days, you're a sucker. Get a loan at low interest, buy up assets, get additional loans on those assets as they appreciate. That's basically the basis of this whole "economic boom". You can rely on the Fed being unable to raise interest rates, or this house of cards will collapse and everyone will need another bailout. The Fed keeps talking about low inflation while asset prices have exploded on their watch, it's hilarious.

smudgymcscmudge 7y ago
Point me to these assets that are guaranteed to go up. I’ll force my kids to get loans and I’ll invest in these instead.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  I suppose the tongue-in-cheek was lost on a lot of people here, this is not financial advice, especially not for the average Joe. Having said that, this is what companies (and certain wealthy individuals) have been doing for a while now: Get cheap loans, buy back your own stock, buy more real estate, drive up the value, get more loans based on those inflated valuations. You may be able to do this as an average individual, that's what happened in 2008 when every schmuck would get a mortgage based on another already mortgaged house. The difference is, when you're an individual the government is not going to bail you out personally (unless maybe Liz Warren or Bernie Sanders are in power). You can at least declare personal bankruptcy if you didn't incorporate. Now the reason why this is a fairly safe bet today is that the governments of the world absolutely don't want to repeat 2008. They will create any amount of money necessary to keep the party going. This means asset prices will rise due to pure inflation. Anyone with cash or long-term bonds will be left holding the bag, which also coincides with the interest of the heavily indebted governments.
season8sucked 7y ago
This is terrible advice and I truly hope you aren’t giving anybody (in public or private) financial advice.

hatmatrix 7y ago

There are also additional scenarios of frustration like ambitiously graduating a semester early, or failing to graduate with this class on account of missing credits. In the latter case you might have consoled yourself of the lost wages for a semester, and then you hear this happens...

RobLach 7y ago

You believe your parents or you would have worked harder than the parents of those students or those students; who have debt?

LanceH 7y ago
Exactly. One family takes a loan and a vacation every year, the other works over holiday...

mikeash 7y ago

It sure sounds to me like you’re begrudging this generosity. Be grateful for what you have. Don’t be resentful for what others get, it only hurts you.

rdl 7y ago

I'd be a lot sadder if I'd scraped and taken loans and graduated the previous year from that school with a lot of debt. Even worse if you rushed through and graduated early or something (maybe to save money?).

mlevental 7y ago

other people getting lucky certainly brings out the worst in people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNo_Hhm5r8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNo_Hhm5r8o

siruncledrew 7y ago

What percentage of people legitimately make financial decisions on the assumption a rich benefactor is going to cover them in the future? This is the benefit of being in the right place at the right time. I'm sure people would be salty to not this windfall, but who knows maybe they will be lucky somewhere else.

MisterBastahrd 7y ago

Frustrated? In this situation, YOU got a free education regardless. I paid every freaking dime for my education out of pocket by sacrificing my nights and weekends during college. For plenty of people, college was a time where they made a ton of life-long friends. For me? College was a time where I spent half my time on campus passed out in the student union or library trying to get a bit of a nap between classes so that I could work an 8-6 schedule at night.

analog31 7y ago

The idea that nobody should get a goody if I can't get a goody, is the beginning of the race to the bottom.

ALittleLight 7y ago
Maybe - but you should also recognize that if you made sacrifices and spent a lot of money on something it would be annoying to discover that if you had made a less fiscally responsible choice it would have wound up working much better for you.
refurb 7y ago
Does this also apply to the common complaints against the 1%? Just be happy that they have a ton of money even though you don’t?
- drusepth 7y ago
  I think it applies when you make the argument "They shouldn't be able to make millions if I can't also make millions."
throw20102010 7y ago
I think GP has a point that needs to be addressed if we ever want to do a debt forgiveness on a large scale without alienating a bunch of hard working people. It's not about keeping people from getting goodies, it's about rewarding responsible behavior. Imagine two students, Andy and Brady. Andy decided that it would be best to get good grades, so he took out more loans and worked less. Andy had more time to study so he got mostly A grades. Brady decided it would be best to get graduate debt free, so he worked long hours instead of taking more loans. Brady had less time to study so he got more B grades. At the typical US university, you might be able to call their outcomes balanced- Andy can maybe get a better job because he got better grades, but has to pay off more debt. Brady won't get quite as good of a job because of his B grades, but gets to start saving for retirement faster because he is debt free. But then some billionaire (call him Robert Smith, if we're trying to come up with the most generic name ever) comes and pays off Andy's debt. Now instead of a balanced outcome Andy is debt free and has a better job. Which is great for Andy, so I'm not saying the billionaire should't pay off his debt. But you have to think that Brady is probably kicking himself right now for not making a different set of choices. He's now behind in the race, and being behind sticks with you for a long time when it comes to careers. If we could find a solution that kept Brady from feeling bad, but still gave Andy his goodies, then I'm sure that most people would agree that is a good outcome. An easy one that comes to mind is instead of saying, "I'm paying off all your student loan debt," Smith could say, "I'm giving you each $100k." That way Andy and Brady both get goodies, and Andy doesn't have crippling debt any more. Brady also doesn't kick himself for working hard during college because he now has a nice sum of money to do something responsible with (invest, save for retirement, down payment on a house, etc.).

door5 7y ago

I'm more upset that a single person has 5 billion dollars in the first place. Why don't we have a wealth tax on billionaires so that no one has student debt and we don't have to rely on the isolated generosity of individual billionaires?