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Most governments in history were authoritarian and many were stable for hundreds of years. With modern technology, I don’t see why authoritarian governments are

Most governments in history were authoritarian and many were stable for hundreds of years. With modern technology, I don’t see why authoritarian governments are necessarily more vulnerable than democratic ones.

lawrenceyan 7y ago
That’s sort of a bad argument though isn’t it? There’s a reason why those governments no longer exist. FYI, a fall towards authoritarianism being a key factor to an ultimate collapse. Being authoritarian from the beginning just makes you start that much closer to edge.
- chii 7y ago
  or authoritarian gov't but with competent bureaucrats and significant drop in corruption and bribery could in fact, be more stable than a democratic society.
  - lawrenceyan 7y ago
    The problem with that “strongman” autocrat ruler kind of thinking is that, while in the short term it can bring benefits, it’s ultimately unsustainable precisely because people don’t live forever and you can’t guarantee that your successors will be as competent or intelligent. The bugs with authoritarianism reveal themselves at this point, as the wide powers given to the aforementioned incompetent people in power results in extremely bad decisions being made, ultimately leading to a degradation in society and either collapse or a coup. Such a cycle is extremely unstable, and it only takes a brief glance at history to see the results for yourself. There’s a reason why in today’s world, empires and monarchies have been replaced by republics with systems of checks and balances that are put in place specifically to avoid these effects.
  - gbersac 7y ago
    How could an autoritarian society could not be corrupt ? When knowing the right person (the auritarian leader or any of its men) give greater wealth than being efficient ?
barry-cotter 7y ago
> Most governments in history were authoritarian and many were stable for hundreds of years. There are currently two state level organisations over 1,000 years old, Japan’s Chrysanthemum Throne, aka the Imperial Household and the Holy See or Papacy. The only other state to break 1,000 years I’m aware of was the Most Serene Republic of Venice. State continuity is an extremely hard problem, and I don’t see much evidence that monarchies were stable. Succession disputes and civil wars are really common in republics, monarchies, empires, everything. Democracy’s virtue is in simulating a civil war by counting heads and facilitating an orderly and peaceful transfer of power between groups that detest each other. When the hate gets too much then you get a civil war. Authoritarian governments have the problem that the Western bloc is implacably opposed to their existence and will take any opportunity to extinguish them. Look at what happened to Libya after Qaddafi cooperated and dismantled the chemical weapons programme and did that help him? Hell no. Hilary Clinton gloated over his death after she persuaded Obama to destroy the only Libya. This is not the only time the US has opted to spread its values at the expense of countries that had no quarrel with it. The US sent the Flying Tigers to Burma well before Pearl Harbor, and knew perfectly well that the oil blockade of Japan was an existential threat to the Empire of Japan. Likewise the US got into WWI and WWII because it wanted to. The US was shipping aid and supplies to the U.K. The sibling of the Lusitania was hardly an unforeseen consequence of supporting one side in a war. China is well aware of this, or at least the Politburo and the rest of the top level cadres in Zhongnanhai are. The West is inimical to their existence. Ditto the North Korean leadership. The US is totally untrustworthy as far as they’re concerned. More broadly apart from the Holy See and Chrysanthemum Throne the countries that have gone the longest with continuity of government and sovereignty are the USA and U.K. The US is due for another civil war, people certainly hate each other enough and the UK’s claims to governmental continuity have a huge asterisk called the Glorious Revolution or Dutch invasion.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > There are currently two state level organisations over 1,000 years old, Japan’s Chrysanthemum Throne, aka the Imperial Household and the Holy See or Papacy. The Holy See hasn't actually been either stable or a state level organization continuously for the last thousand years.

lawrenceyan 7y ago

That’s sort of a bad argument though isn’t it? There’s a reason why those governments no longer exist. FYI, a fall towards authoritarianism being a key factor to an ultimate collapse. Being authoritarian from the beginning just makes you start that much closer to edge.

chii 7y ago
or authoritarian gov't but with competent bureaucrats and significant drop in corruption and bribery could in fact, be more stable than a democratic society.
- lawrenceyan 7y ago
  The problem with that “strongman” autocrat ruler kind of thinking is that, while in the short term it can bring benefits, it’s ultimately unsustainable precisely because people don’t live forever and you can’t guarantee that your successors will be as competent or intelligent. The bugs with authoritarianism reveal themselves at this point, as the wide powers given to the aforementioned incompetent people in power results in extremely bad decisions being made, ultimately leading to a degradation in society and either collapse or a coup. Such a cycle is extremely unstable, and it only takes a brief glance at history to see the results for yourself. There’s a reason why in today’s world, empires and monarchies have been replaced by republics with systems of checks and balances that are put in place specifically to avoid these effects.
- gbersac 7y ago
  How could an autoritarian society could not be corrupt ? When knowing the right person (the auritarian leader or any of its men) give greater wealth than being efficient ?

barry-cotter 7y ago

> Most governments in history were authoritarian and many were stable for hundreds of years. There are currently two state level organisations over 1,000 years old, Japan’s Chrysanthemum Throne, aka the Imperial Household and the Holy See or Papacy. The only other state to break 1,000 years I’m aware of was the Most Serene Republic of Venice. State continuity is an extremely hard problem, and I don’t see much evidence that monarchies were stable. Succession disputes and civil wars are really common in republics, monarchies, empires, everything. Democracy’s virtue is in simulating a civil war by counting heads and facilitating an orderly and peaceful transfer of power between groups that detest each other. When the hate gets too much then you get a civil war. Authoritarian governments have the problem that the Western bloc is implacably opposed to their existence and will take any opportunity to extinguish them. Look at what happened to Libya after Qaddafi cooperated and dismantled the chemical weapons programme and did that help him? Hell no. Hilary Clinton gloated over his death after she persuaded Obama to destroy the only Libya. This is not the only time the US has opted to spread its values at the expense of countries that had no quarrel with it. The US sent the Flying Tigers to Burma well before Pearl Harbor, and knew perfectly well that the oil blockade of Japan was an existential threat to the Empire of Japan. Likewise the US got into WWI and WWII because it wanted to. The US was shipping aid and supplies to the U.K. The sibling of the Lusitania was hardly an unforeseen consequence of supporting one side in a war. China is well aware of this, or at least the Politburo and the rest of the top level cadres in Zhongnanhai are. The West is inimical to their existence. Ditto the North Korean leadership. The US is totally untrustworthy as far as they’re concerned. More broadly apart from the Holy See and Chrysanthemum Throne the countries that have gone the longest with continuity of government and sovereignty are the USA and U.K. The US is due for another civil war, people certainly hate each other enough and the UK’s claims to governmental continuity have a huge asterisk called the Glorious Revolution or Dutch invasion.

dragonwriter 7y ago
> There are currently two state level organisations over 1,000 years old, Japan’s Chrysanthemum Throne, aka the Imperial Household and the Holy See or Papacy. The Holy See hasn't actually been either stable or a state level organization continuously for the last thousand years.