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In a way, this helps Apple (and other Android vendors) and in a way, it hurts it. Huawei phones recently have shipped market leading cameras that blow pretty mu

In a way, this helps Apple (and other Android vendors) and in a way, it hurts it. Huawei phones recently have shipped market leading cameras that blow pretty much all other Android and iPhone cameras out of the water. They took a commanding lead as a premium device manufacturer. Hurting their non-China markets gives breathing space to others. However, if I were Apple, I'd be really worried about retaliation. Apple is wholly dependent on manufacturing in China and its supply chain, and even small disruptions could cause huge mounts of pain.

avocado4 7y ago
In what world is Huawei a leading premium device manufacturer? Do you have a source?
- unixhero 7y ago
  He is right.
  - ksec 7y ago
    Source? And how do you define premium? The sentence implies leading as in market shares, and not technological.
    - cromwellian 7y ago
      Huawei p30 leads Apple on camera quality by far. It has premium build quality and battery life. In market share they lead Apple in China, and they ship more units. Trying to act like they’re a low end bit player is ludicrous. They’re the Samsung of China now, and on track to overtake Samsung globally.
- arebours 7y ago
  https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44188018 https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44188018
  - avocado4 7y ago
    This doesn't show they are a leading premium smartphone manufacturer. This says they are a 2nd largest smartphone manufacturer. Leading premium manufacturer means largest volume of premium smartphones sold. Huawei doesn't sell a lot of P30 (although I agree it's a premium device).
    - ksec 7y ago
      This. And I am surprised at the amount of downvote and I quote "an assertion that is a fairly well-known fact."
      - cromwellian 7y ago
        Where’s your citation on P30 sales figures? If apple doesn’t sell as many iPhone X’s as P30s in China does that make Apple not a premium manufacturer if most of their sales are lower end? https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-p30-series-single-day-shipments-are-more-than-100000-units-in-china/amp/ https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-p30-series-single-day-s... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/huawei-ahead-of-apple-in-q1-2019-smartphone-shipments.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/huawei-ahead-of-apple-in-q1-... In 2018, they shipped 16 million P20s in 9 months. And they shipped 100,000 in a single day which could translate to 3 million units a month or 27 million in 9 months, but even if they ship 20 million in 9 months which is 25% more than the P20 you can’t wave you hands and act like no one is buying these phones.
        ksec 7y ago
        Because Apple report their Smartphone ASP, ( at least in iPhone X era ) And you will need to look up even the worst of iPhone X estimate shipment figures. No one, me or the previous one who replied said anything about P20 not selling. Nor the P30. It is simply not leading premium Smartphone, where Smartphone here is inclusive of iOS. Not by commonly used matrix, where the word leading would directly referred to market ASP and not leading as in technically. And I said this again, it would be correct if the sentence was leading premium Android Smartphone. Or Leading Smartphone ( Excluding Android ) or Leading Android would also be correct. And I am out.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  Asking for a source for an assertion that is a fairly well-known fact is simply lazy.
  - ksec 7y ago
    Fact? Huawei is #2 or #1 by unit shipment. That doesn't immediately make them a "leading" Premium Smartphone maker. I could sell 200M of $200 Phones and 10M of $700 Phones. Would that make them leading? Would that make them premium?
- gsich 7y ago
  In this one.
- cromwellian 7y ago
  Do you consider Samsung a premium Android manufacturer? I assume you're not defining "premium" == "Apple". If you admit that there are premium Android phones, and that Samsung is one of the manufacturers, well, Huawei is on track to surpass Samsung in units sold, AND it has the best reviewed camera. It blows away the iPhone X series, especially at low light, but also produces incredible night/low light protography beating even the Google Pixel Night Sight mode. in China, they are now the most expensive phones, people are willing to pay more $$$ to get the top of the line Huawei than an iPhone which used to be the previous "look am me, I'm rich and trendy" device to own there. It's one reason why iPhone sales in China have declined. There's no world in which you can't claim they are not a world leading phone manufacturer and that their devices aren't premium. Sure, the heavy modded Android sucks and is probably spyware and you can't get vanilla android on it, but hardware wise, it is premium. The P30 Pro runs for almost $1000. People who live in the US kind of live in a reality distortion field around Apple, and are somewhat blind to what is happening in Europe and Asia. And this complacence is a pretty bad way to evaluate your competitors. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-threatening-Samsung-for-global-smartphone-market-share-lead.373981.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-threatening-Samsung-for... https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/12/18221598/huawei-apple-china-sales-nationalism-patriotism-competition https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/12/18221598/huawei-apple-chi... https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/10/18285123/huawei-p30-pro-review-periscope-camera-zoom-android-phone https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/10/18285123/huawei-p30-pro-r...
  - avocado4 7y ago
    I agree they are a world leading manufacturer (#2 behind Samsung), and I agree that some of their devices are premium. I'm just saying they are not a leading premium manufacturer. Those are 2 different things. Apple and Samsung are by far ahead in volume sold for premium devices globally.
  - ksec 7y ago
    Would Xiaomi be a leading premium manufacture if they had a devices running for $1000, when their Smartphone ASP is below $200? >People who live in the US kind of live in a reality distortion field around Apple, and are somewhat blind to what is happening in Europe and Asia. And this complacence is a pretty bad way to evaluate your competitors. It isn't RDF, it is "leading premium manufacture" does mean what you think it means. It would be more accurate if it was "leading premium Android manufacturers".
- ulfw 7y ago
  In a world outside the US, where the Huawei P30 Pro has the best camera combo, one of the fastest processors and a premium. build (and price).
costcopizza 7y ago
How much more expensive would an iPhone be that’s assembled in the US?
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  Cost is not the reason all consumer electronics are made in China. Actually, manufacturing there is now more expensive than Estern Europe. They build them there because all the supply chain is already there. In Shenzhen, the capacitors, resistors, PCBs and most chips are sourced in bulk from around the block. That's something no other country in the West or even East has and it's such a complex interconnected ecosystem that you can't replicate it anywhere else right now. Most of the CNC, tooling and moulding craftsmen are there as well, the west has far too few left to be able to take over such volumes. Training so many can take years and that's assuming you even find enough people willing to be trained.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
    I've been watching a lot of videos on Shenzhen and it's just mental. There's basically same day delivery by bicycle or truck of anything your supply line might be running low on. It's like their transport latency is so low and reliable that they don't need as much buffering. It's amazing to see what small and large quantity production lines can look like.
    - baybal2 7y ago
      > It's like their transport latency is so low Reading this, I begin to scratch head hearing people complaining about factories being squeezed out towards boundaries of Shenzhen municipality. I remember people thinking of that as some end of the world event.
    - shabirgilkar 7y ago
      Can you please share those links here
      - 7y ago
Despegar 7y ago
The last thing China wants during a trade war is to have the 3 million people in Apple's supply chain unemployed and angry. This particular leverage is also why iMessage isn't blocked in China.
- fabianhjr 7y ago
  Apple isn't the only company in China, plus they could buy-back or eminent domain closed factories and assign them to SOEs. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Foxconn#/Major_customers https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Foxconn#/Major_customers
- shshhdhs 7y ago
  More likely because Apple gave China the master encryption keys: https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/25/apple-moves-icloud-encryption-keys-for-chinese-users-to-china/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/25/apple-moves-icloud-encrypt...
  - Despegar 7y ago
    iMessage is end-to-end encrypted.
    - gsich 7y ago
      Doesn't matter if you backup messages to icloud.
      - Despegar 7y ago
        That's no different anywhere else in the world.
    - opportune 7y ago
      iMessage is encrypted in transit and at rest. However, that doesn't matter if your attacker (the Chinese government) has the encryption keys
rqs 7y ago
> However, if I were Apple, I'd be really worried about retaliation. I think this view is too narrow. For the Chinese government, there is something more important than revenge. Why kick that cash machine out of your country if it still paying your people paid and make then happy? I guess the retaliation will come in a different form, even something out of the trade section maybe, depends on what's on Xi's table.

avocado4 7y ago

In what world is Huawei a leading premium device manufacturer? Do you have a source?

unixhero 7y ago
He is right.
- ksec 7y ago
  Source? And how do you define premium? The sentence implies leading as in market shares, and not technological.
  - cromwellian 7y ago
    Huawei p30 leads Apple on camera quality by far. It has premium build quality and battery life. In market share they lead Apple in China, and they ship more units. Trying to act like they’re a low end bit player is ludicrous. They’re the Samsung of China now, and on track to overtake Samsung globally.
arebours 7y ago
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44188018 https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44188018
- avocado4 7y ago
  This doesn't show they are a leading premium smartphone manufacturer. This says they are a 2nd largest smartphone manufacturer. Leading premium manufacturer means largest volume of premium smartphones sold. Huawei doesn't sell a lot of P30 (although I agree it's a premium device).
  - ksec 7y ago
    This. And I am surprised at the amount of downvote and I quote "an assertion that is a fairly well-known fact."
    - cromwellian 7y ago
      Where’s your citation on P30 sales figures? If apple doesn’t sell as many iPhone X’s as P30s in China does that make Apple not a premium manufacturer if most of their sales are lower end? https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-p30-series-single-day-shipments-are-more-than-100000-units-in-china/amp/ https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-p30-series-single-day-s... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/huawei-ahead-of-apple-in-q1-2019-smartphone-shipments.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/huawei-ahead-of-apple-in-q1-... In 2018, they shipped 16 million P20s in 9 months. And they shipped 100,000 in a single day which could translate to 3 million units a month or 27 million in 9 months, but even if they ship 20 million in 9 months which is 25% more than the P20 you can’t wave you hands and act like no one is buying these phones.
      - ksec 7y ago
        Because Apple report their Smartphone ASP, ( at least in iPhone X era ) And you will need to look up even the worst of iPhone X estimate shipment figures. No one, me or the previous one who replied said anything about P20 not selling. Nor the P30. It is simply not leading premium Smartphone, where Smartphone here is inclusive of iOS. Not by commonly used matrix, where the word leading would directly referred to market ASP and not leading as in technically. And I said this again, it would be correct if the sentence was leading premium Android Smartphone. Or Leading Smartphone ( Excluding Android ) or Leading Android would also be correct. And I am out.
Mikeb85 7y ago
Asking for a source for an assertion that is a fairly well-known fact is simply lazy.
- ksec 7y ago
  Fact? Huawei is #2 or #1 by unit shipment. That doesn't immediately make them a "leading" Premium Smartphone maker. I could sell 200M of $200 Phones and 10M of $700 Phones. Would that make them leading? Would that make them premium?
gsich 7y ago
In this one.
cromwellian 7y ago
Do you consider Samsung a premium Android manufacturer? I assume you're not defining "premium" == "Apple". If you admit that there are premium Android phones, and that Samsung is one of the manufacturers, well, Huawei is on track to surpass Samsung in units sold, AND it has the best reviewed camera. It blows away the iPhone X series, especially at low light, but also produces incredible night/low light protography beating even the Google Pixel Night Sight mode. in China, they are now the most expensive phones, people are willing to pay more $$$ to get the top of the line Huawei than an iPhone which used to be the previous "look am me, I'm rich and trendy" device to own there. It's one reason why iPhone sales in China have declined. There's no world in which you can't claim they are not a world leading phone manufacturer and that their devices aren't premium. Sure, the heavy modded Android sucks and is probably spyware and you can't get vanilla android on it, but hardware wise, it is premium. The P30 Pro runs for almost $1000. People who live in the US kind of live in a reality distortion field around Apple, and are somewhat blind to what is happening in Europe and Asia. And this complacence is a pretty bad way to evaluate your competitors. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-threatening-Samsung-for-global-smartphone-market-share-lead.373981.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-threatening-Samsung-for... https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/12/18221598/huawei-apple-china-sales-nationalism-patriotism-competition https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/12/18221598/huawei-apple-chi... https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/10/18285123/huawei-p30-pro-review-periscope-camera-zoom-android-phone https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/10/18285123/huawei-p30-pro-r...
- avocado4 7y ago
  I agree they are a world leading manufacturer (#2 behind Samsung), and I agree that some of their devices are premium. I'm just saying they are not a leading premium manufacturer. Those are 2 different things. Apple and Samsung are by far ahead in volume sold for premium devices globally.
- ksec 7y ago
  Would Xiaomi be a leading premium manufacture if they had a devices running for $1000, when their Smartphone ASP is below $200? >People who live in the US kind of live in a reality distortion field around Apple, and are somewhat blind to what is happening in Europe and Asia. And this complacence is a pretty bad way to evaluate your competitors. It isn't RDF, it is "leading premium manufacture" does mean what you think it means. It would be more accurate if it was "leading premium Android manufacturers".
ulfw 7y ago
In a world outside the US, where the Huawei P30 Pro has the best camera combo, one of the fastest processors and a premium. build (and price).

costcopizza 7y ago

How much more expensive would an iPhone be that’s assembled in the US?

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
Cost is not the reason all consumer electronics are made in China. Actually, manufacturing there is now more expensive than Estern Europe. They build them there because all the supply chain is already there. In Shenzhen, the capacitors, resistors, PCBs and most chips are sourced in bulk from around the block. That's something no other country in the West or even East has and it's such a complex interconnected ecosystem that you can't replicate it anywhere else right now. Most of the CNC, tooling and moulding craftsmen are there as well, the west has far too few left to be able to take over such volumes. Training so many can take years and that's assuming you even find enough people willing to be trained.
- Waterluvian 7y ago
  I've been watching a lot of videos on Shenzhen and it's just mental. There's basically same day delivery by bicycle or truck of anything your supply line might be running low on. It's like their transport latency is so low and reliable that they don't need as much buffering. It's amazing to see what small and large quantity production lines can look like.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    > It's like their transport latency is so low Reading this, I begin to scratch head hearing people complaining about factories being squeezed out towards boundaries of Shenzhen municipality. I remember people thinking of that as some end of the world event.
  - shabirgilkar 7y ago
    Can you please share those links here
    - 7y ago

Despegar 7y ago

The last thing China wants during a trade war is to have the 3 million people in Apple's supply chain unemployed and angry. This particular leverage is also why iMessage isn't blocked in China.

fabianhjr 7y ago
Apple isn't the only company in China, plus they could buy-back or eminent domain closed factories and assign them to SOEs. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Foxconn#/Major_customers https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Foxconn#/Major_customers
shshhdhs 7y ago
More likely because Apple gave China the master encryption keys: https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/25/apple-moves-icloud-encryption-keys-for-chinese-users-to-china/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/25/apple-moves-icloud-encrypt...
- Despegar 7y ago
  iMessage is end-to-end encrypted.
  - gsich 7y ago
    Doesn't matter if you backup messages to icloud.
    - Despegar 7y ago
      That's no different anywhere else in the world.
  - opportune 7y ago
    iMessage is encrypted in transit and at rest. However, that doesn't matter if your attacker (the Chinese government) has the encryption keys

rqs 7y ago

> However, if I were Apple, I'd be really worried about retaliation. I think this view is too narrow. For the Chinese government, there is something more important than revenge. Why kick that cash machine out of your country if it still paying your people paid and make then happy? I guess the retaliation will come in a different form, even something out of the trade section maybe, depends on what's on Xi's table.