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I'm surprised anyone still runs their business on a Google dependency. I was trying to use Google maps for Android ca. 2012 - they acknowledged the bugs I filed

I'm surprised anyone still runs their business on a Google dependency. I was trying to use Google maps for Android ca. 2012 - they acknowledged the bugs I filed a few months ago. If a Google product is a dependency of your business, you must get ready for a potential change or switch out said dependency. E.g. Crashlytics for a more recent example.

panpanna 7y ago
This is very true. Google is not a reliable partner. Update: consumers realized this years ago. This is why Google has to announce messaging apps two at a time and cancel them next year. This is why Microsoft products are so extremely popular on Android.
- cbsks 7y ago
  A partner isn’t a partner unless you have a signed contract
  - panpanna 7y ago
    Oh, there is a contract. It's just very one-sided.
    - hedora 7y ago
      Indeed it is one sided. I wonder if the courts will agree this applies to content that web servers transmit to google’s crawler. If so, can I add such an agreement to my homepage, and claim it applies to all the http requests I initiate?: > When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services (for example, for a business listing you have added to Google Maps). Some Services may offer you ways to access and remove content that has been provided to that Service. Also, in some of our Services, there are terms or settings that narrow the scope of our use of the content submitted in those Services. Make sure you have the necessary rights to grant us this license for any content that you submit to our Services.
      - jrockway 7y ago
        HTTP has a builtin mechanism for this; you can send 200 OK if you want copyright law to control the use of your content, or 403 Forbidden if you want more restrictions. Google, of course, does not super care about your extra conditions, so the 403 route probably isn't going to get you much.
    - Jabbles 7y ago
      Interestingly, there is a legal term related to one-sided contracts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability
  - xfitm3 7y ago
    I have a contract for gapps, I have not been burned yet but I’m sure it’s just a matter of time.
- onetimemanytime 7y ago
  Say what you say abut Microsoft...you can still run a 20 year old program on Windows.
  - brennebeck 7y ago
    Isn’t that his point? That MS is reliable while Big G isn’t?
    - nitrogen 7y ago
      It's funny, Microsoft used to have a reputation for announcing things but never building them (vaporware) to delay people's purchases of competing products. Google takes it one step further by actually releasing a product, getting everybody on it, then killing it.
  - iamtheworstdev 7y ago
    That can be a burden in itself though. The size of the OS and even the processors we use can't be shrunk down because of all of that backwards compatibility. It's some what if an anchor / technical debt in itself.
    - avtar 7y ago
      > The size of the OS and even the processors we use can't be shrunk down because of all of that backwards compatibility On the other side of the fence Apple breaks compatibility all the time (see OpenGL vs Metal 2). Yet you can run Windows 10 on comparatively lower specced hardware while still being able to run apps developed for Windows XP.
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Note that OpenGL apps still work, and Apple uses it for their own apps currently.
        pjmlp 7y ago
Alex3917 7y ago
If you look at product changes per user-minute rather than just the percentage of products cancelled, Google APIs are probably more stable than those of any other company.
- cube00 7y ago
  Too bad the pricing isn't (a la the Maps API recently)
- coldtea 7y ago
  Not compared to actually developer oriented companies with equally larger user bases, like Microsoft, Amazon, and even Oracle.
  - panpanna 7y ago
    You mean the old Microsoft? The new Microsoft just cancelled UWP. Their latest attempt to scare the hell away all developers.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      That is plain FUD spread by anti-UWP crowd. UWP is alive and well, just go check the BUILD 2019 sessions. Apparently some keep missing the point that all new Windows APIs are based on UWP. There is much so more to UWP that the store. The only thing that are doing is bringing the legacy stacks (Win32, Forms, WPF) and the modern one (WinUI, UWP) under the same umbrella.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - panpanna 7y ago
        Remember xna? How about Silverlight? Where is Windows Phone? You see, they don't have the courage to admit defeat. Just let it die and pretend it never existed.
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
Doing infosec, I see examples and guides for people using Gsuite in a corporate environment. That’s their best supported product and I can’t believe people go for it. Edit: disagreement apparently but I’ve never seen a serious company that wasn’t in danger or recovering from a breech using it. Maybe it’s just coincidence.
- mediocrejoker 7y ago
  Isn't there a bit of selection bias if you work in infosec and all the companies you see are either in danger or recovering from a breach? In the all examples you mention, was it specifically Gsuite that was breached? I've always belived Gmail had fantastic security, so I'd be very interested to learn more about any breaches in their core gmail/gsuite offerings.

panpanna 7y ago

This is very true. Google is not a reliable partner. Update: consumers realized this years ago. This is why Google has to announce messaging apps two at a time and cancel them next year. This is why Microsoft products are so extremely popular on Android.

cbsks 7y ago
A partner isn’t a partner unless you have a signed contract
- panpanna 7y ago
  Oh, there is a contract. It's just very one-sided.
  - hedora 7y ago
    Indeed it is one sided. I wonder if the courts will agree this applies to content that web servers transmit to google’s crawler. If so, can I add such an agreement to my homepage, and claim it applies to all the http requests I initiate?: > When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services (for example, for a business listing you have added to Google Maps). Some Services may offer you ways to access and remove content that has been provided to that Service. Also, in some of our Services, there are terms or settings that narrow the scope of our use of the content submitted in those Services. Make sure you have the necessary rights to grant us this license for any content that you submit to our Services.
    - jrockway 7y ago
      HTTP has a builtin mechanism for this; you can send 200 OK if you want copyright law to control the use of your content, or 403 Forbidden if you want more restrictions. Google, of course, does not super care about your extra conditions, so the 403 route probably isn't going to get you much.
  - Jabbles 7y ago
    Interestingly, there is a legal term related to one-sided contracts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability
- xfitm3 7y ago
  I have a contract for gapps, I have not been burned yet but I’m sure it’s just a matter of time.
onetimemanytime 7y ago
Say what you say abut Microsoft...you can still run a 20 year old program on Windows.
- brennebeck 7y ago
  Isn’t that his point? That MS is reliable while Big G isn’t?
  - nitrogen 7y ago
    It's funny, Microsoft used to have a reputation for announcing things but never building them (vaporware) to delay people's purchases of competing products. Google takes it one step further by actually releasing a product, getting everybody on it, then killing it.
- iamtheworstdev 7y ago
  That can be a burden in itself though. The size of the OS and even the processors we use can't be shrunk down because of all of that backwards compatibility. It's some what if an anchor / technical debt in itself.
  - avtar 7y ago
    > The size of the OS and even the processors we use can't be shrunk down because of all of that backwards compatibility On the other side of the fence Apple breaks compatibility all the time (see OpenGL vs Metal 2). Yet you can run Windows 10 on comparatively lower specced hardware while still being able to run apps developed for Windows XP.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Note that OpenGL apps still work, and Apple uses it for their own apps currently.
      - pjmlp 7y ago

Alex3917 7y ago

If you look at product changes per user-minute rather than just the percentage of products cancelled, Google APIs are probably more stable than those of any other company.

cube00 7y ago
Too bad the pricing isn't (a la the Maps API recently)
coldtea 7y ago
Not compared to actually developer oriented companies with equally larger user bases, like Microsoft, Amazon, and even Oracle.
- panpanna 7y ago
  You mean the old Microsoft? The new Microsoft just cancelled UWP. Their latest attempt to scare the hell away all developers.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    That is plain FUD spread by anti-UWP crowd. UWP is alive and well, just go check the BUILD 2019 sessions. Apparently some keep missing the point that all new Windows APIs are based on UWP. There is much so more to UWP that the store. The only thing that are doing is bringing the legacy stacks (Win32, Forms, WPF) and the modern one (WinUI, UWP) under the same umbrella.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - panpanna 7y ago
      Remember xna? How about Silverlight? Where is Windows Phone? You see, they don't have the courage to admit defeat. Just let it die and pretend it never existed.

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago

Doing infosec, I see examples and guides for people using Gsuite in a corporate environment. That’s their best supported product and I can’t believe people go for it. Edit: disagreement apparently but I’ve never seen a serious company that wasn’t in danger or recovering from a breech using it. Maybe it’s just coincidence.

mediocrejoker 7y ago
Isn't there a bit of selection bias if you work in infosec and all the companies you see are either in danger or recovering from a breach? In the all examples you mention, was it specifically Gsuite that was breached? I've always belived Gmail had fantastic security, so I'd be very interested to learn more about any breaches in their core gmail/gsuite offerings.