4 ms·

> Fixing climate change should not be a matter for political debate, Cook said. Says executive of a company which makes completely unnecessary vanity consumer

by chewz 7y ago

> Fixing climate change should not be a matter for political debate, Cook said. Says executive of a company which makes completely unnecessary vanity consumer goods which get thrown away after year or two.

neilalexander 7y ago
I'm not sure this is an entirely fair assessment. Apple have gone to great lengths to use renewable energy and even managed to coerce some of their largest suppliers into doing the same. Their latest range of devices are built with increasing numbers of recycled materials. They generally have a good track record with recycling, even if not very repairable. I would guess there are companies out there far worse for the environment than Apple. [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/40554151/how-apple-got-to-100-renewable-energy-the-right-way https://www.fastcompany.com/40554151/how-apple-got-to-100-re... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/18305840/apple-foxconn-tsmc-renewable-energy-supply-chain-environment-clean-green https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/18305840/apple-foxconn-ts... [3] https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-ups-the-recycled-materials-in-its-new-iphones/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-ups-the-recycled-materials-i...
- chewz 7y ago
  I do not deny the fact that Apple gone to great lengths to be perceived as enviromentaly friendly. I am just pointing that Apple products are an icon of consumerism and example of unnecesarily short product life and forced quick replacement cycle. And it is exactly that rampant consumerism that is at the root of our enviromental problems.
  - neilalexander 7y ago
    Playing devil's advocate here with your "short product life" argument but Apple generally release operating system builds for older devices for much longer than, say, any Android manufacturer out there does. Why aren't we singling out Samsung or HTC too? For example, iOS 12 still supports the iPhone 5S which was released in 2013 (and actually works perfectly well considering the age of the device, as my work phone can attest). On the Mac front, macOS 10.14 is still wholly supported on computers released in 2012 (and that also works fine, as my 2012 MacBook Pro can also attest). Apple themselves have even acknowledged that the purchasing of new devices has declined significantly recently as people tend to be happier with what they have for longer, knowing that it'll be supported for longer and get feature upgrades for longer. If anything, I would suggest that Apple have never had a harder time trying to persuade people to buy new products.
    - ksaj 7y ago
      I have an old unsupported ipad that I still use to read every night. The planned obsolescence is such that it cannot be charged while powered on - literally doesn't even try. When I power it down, it charges just fine, and the battery is good for another week. Likewise, it harasses the living shit out of me to log in to Apple Store, and since I never do, apps running while being harassed invariably crash on the third attempt at forcing me to log in. To me, this is super unethical. I haven't updated it and never will because of the extent of their trying to needlessly force me into an upgrade that won't improve my experience outside of that harassment.
      - colejohnson66 7y ago
        > The planned obsolescence is such that it cannot be charged while powered on Your charging brick isn’t capable of providing enough amps. That’s the problem. Not “planned obsolescence”. Last I checked, the iPad needs at least 10 watts (5V at 2A) to charge. The small 5 watt brick that comes with an iPhone isn’t going to do it.
        ksaj 7y ago
        I even used a new fast charger and a number of 5V/2A blocks thinking the original one was toast. This only started happening suddenly after an update, and I've never been able to charge it unless shut off ever since. Even the "plugged in" graphic doesn't show, and it will not even try to charge when plugged in to sync. I read about the voltage/amperage thing before, but it doesn't seem to be the case here. It is a sensible solution that I wished would work, but isn't working on mine. Of course, it is possible that the charging circuit inside is worn down or something. But again, it started happening immediately after an update, and no subsequent update fixed it. And now it is unsupported, so it is what it is until it officially croaks.
- tracker1 7y ago
  Even better than recycling is being able to repair and continue using. Not only that, but effectively saying, "hey, nevermind the tens of trillions in debt the country is, spend more."
  - neilalexander 7y ago
    That is the nature of capitalism and not really something in Apple's scope to fix. If Apple do not participate by bringing out new models and marketing upgrades then people will just go and be capitalistic with other companies and their products instead.
    - tracker1 7y ago
      You mean like all the desktops and laptops that people continue to use for 5+ years today?
frozenport 7y ago
Cellphones are important
Kuraj 7y ago
You don't have to buy a new iPhone every time a new one comes out.
- chewz 7y ago
  I don't have to buy new iPhone personally. But there are milions who have been convinced by Apple that they have to.
  - arebours 7y ago
    Are you expecting Apple to convince people to stop buying iPhones?
    - chewz 7y ago
      How about keeping older models alive with updates and not sabotaging customers right to repair? Least that they can do. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-consumer-harm/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-c...
      - PascLeRasc 7y ago
        the 5S, a phone from 2013, still gets iOS updates. What Android phone still gets updates 5.5 years after release?
      - oliveshell 7y ago
        To be fair, they are doing the former. iOS 12 actually made my iPhone 6– which I’ve had since 2014– noticeably faster.
      - arebours 7y ago
        Yes, Apple actively stabotage right to repair. I'm not a fan o them because of that and some other things. But at the same time iPhones are pretty sturdy phones with OTA updates spanning years, while most android manufacturers seem not to care.
LUmBULtERA 7y ago
...Get thrown away after a year or two? Apple iPhones have relatively low depreciation, compared to Android phones. See the resale values of older iPhones on Swappa. One would be a fool to throw away an iPhone after a year or two. As for me, I always buy about 1.5-2 year old used iPhones and then resell them after another 1.5-2 years -- to other users who continue to use them for years.
- chewz 7y ago
  Great. You are a model citizen of the planet. :-) Personally however I know people whose homes are littered with old Apple devices that lay abandoned because even their small children use later models. The replacement cycle that Apple created had some technical reason perhaps but it was mostly forced by marketing and drive for profits at the expense of enviroment.
deogeo 7y ago
If he were to try too hard to reduce the rate at which iThings are replaced, Apple's profitability would suffer, and he would be replaced by a CEO without environmental misgivings. That's why in many cases, engaging in an activity while calling for that activity to be banned, is perfectly sensible. You don't want to do something, but the market forces you, and the only way to stop, is for everyone to stop. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ explains it well.
- chewz 7y ago
  Well I am aware of the dilema. But your argument the usual defense line of war criminals. "I had to do that, if not me someone else will do it instead". Each of us is taking some moral choices. Tim Cook isn't acting under a gun to his head. Public speaking where Cook is signalling concern about enviroment is just hypocrytical virtue signaling in my humble opinion.
  - homonculus1 7y ago
    It's not like Apple is some struggling underdog for Christ's sake. With hundreds of billions in liquid reserves they could afford to optimize 90% for profit and q0% for sustainability instead of 100% for profit.

by chewz 7y ago

neilalexander 7y ago

I'm not sure this is an entirely fair assessment. Apple have gone to great lengths to use renewable energy and even managed to coerce some of their largest suppliers into doing the same. Their latest range of devices are built with increasing numbers of recycled materials. They generally have a good track record with recycling, even if not very repairable. I would guess there are companies out there far worse for the environment than Apple. [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/40554151/how-apple-got-to-100-renewable-energy-the-right-way https://www.fastcompany.com/40554151/how-apple-got-to-100-re... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/18305840/apple-foxconn-tsmc-renewable-energy-supply-chain-environment-clean-green https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/18305840/apple-foxconn-ts... [3] https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-ups-the-recycled-materials-in-its-new-iphones/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-ups-the-recycled-materials-i...

chewz 7y ago
I do not deny the fact that Apple gone to great lengths to be perceived as enviromentaly friendly. I am just pointing that Apple products are an icon of consumerism and example of unnecesarily short product life and forced quick replacement cycle. And it is exactly that rampant consumerism that is at the root of our enviromental problems.
- neilalexander 7y ago
  Playing devil's advocate here with your "short product life" argument but Apple generally release operating system builds for older devices for much longer than, say, any Android manufacturer out there does. Why aren't we singling out Samsung or HTC too? For example, iOS 12 still supports the iPhone 5S which was released in 2013 (and actually works perfectly well considering the age of the device, as my work phone can attest). On the Mac front, macOS 10.14 is still wholly supported on computers released in 2012 (and that also works fine, as my 2012 MacBook Pro can also attest). Apple themselves have even acknowledged that the purchasing of new devices has declined significantly recently as people tend to be happier with what they have for longer, knowing that it'll be supported for longer and get feature upgrades for longer. If anything, I would suggest that Apple have never had a harder time trying to persuade people to buy new products.
  - ksaj 7y ago
    I have an old unsupported ipad that I still use to read every night. The planned obsolescence is such that it cannot be charged while powered on - literally doesn't even try. When I power it down, it charges just fine, and the battery is good for another week. Likewise, it harasses the living shit out of me to log in to Apple Store, and since I never do, apps running while being harassed invariably crash on the third attempt at forcing me to log in. To me, this is super unethical. I haven't updated it and never will because of the extent of their trying to needlessly force me into an upgrade that won't improve my experience outside of that harassment.
    - colejohnson66 7y ago
      > The planned obsolescence is such that it cannot be charged while powered on Your charging brick isn’t capable of providing enough amps. That’s the problem. Not “planned obsolescence”. Last I checked, the iPad needs at least 10 watts (5V at 2A) to charge. The small 5 watt brick that comes with an iPhone isn’t going to do it.
      - ksaj 7y ago
        I even used a new fast charger and a number of 5V/2A blocks thinking the original one was toast. This only started happening suddenly after an update, and I've never been able to charge it unless shut off ever since. Even the "plugged in" graphic doesn't show, and it will not even try to charge when plugged in to sync. I read about the voltage/amperage thing before, but it doesn't seem to be the case here. It is a sensible solution that I wished would work, but isn't working on mine. Of course, it is possible that the charging circuit inside is worn down or something. But again, it started happening immediately after an update, and no subsequent update fixed it. And now it is unsupported, so it is what it is until it officially croaks.
tracker1 7y ago
Even better than recycling is being able to repair and continue using. Not only that, but effectively saying, "hey, nevermind the tens of trillions in debt the country is, spend more."
- neilalexander 7y ago
  That is the nature of capitalism and not really something in Apple's scope to fix. If Apple do not participate by bringing out new models and marketing upgrades then people will just go and be capitalistic with other companies and their products instead.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    You mean like all the desktops and laptops that people continue to use for 5+ years today?

frozenport 7y ago

Cellphones are important

Kuraj 7y ago

You don't have to buy a new iPhone every time a new one comes out.

chewz 7y ago
I don't have to buy new iPhone personally. But there are milions who have been convinced by Apple that they have to.
- arebours 7y ago
  Are you expecting Apple to convince people to stop buying iPhones?
  - chewz 7y ago
    How about keeping older models alive with updates and not sabotaging customers right to repair? Least that they can do. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-consumer-harm/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-c...
    - PascLeRasc 7y ago
      the 5S, a phone from 2013, still gets iOS updates. What Android phone still gets updates 5.5 years after release?
    - oliveshell 7y ago
      To be fair, they are doing the former. iOS 12 actually made my iPhone 6– which I’ve had since 2014– noticeably faster.
    - arebours 7y ago
      Yes, Apple actively stabotage right to repair. I'm not a fan o them because of that and some other things. But at the same time iPhones are pretty sturdy phones with OTA updates spanning years, while most android manufacturers seem not to care.

LUmBULtERA 7y ago

...Get thrown away after a year or two? Apple iPhones have relatively low depreciation, compared to Android phones. See the resale values of older iPhones on Swappa. One would be a fool to throw away an iPhone after a year or two. As for me, I always buy about 1.5-2 year old used iPhones and then resell them after another 1.5-2 years -- to other users who continue to use them for years.

chewz 7y ago
Great. You are a model citizen of the planet. :-) Personally however I know people whose homes are littered with old Apple devices that lay abandoned because even their small children use later models. The replacement cycle that Apple created had some technical reason perhaps but it was mostly forced by marketing and drive for profits at the expense of enviroment.

deogeo 7y ago

If he were to try too hard to reduce the rate at which iThings are replaced, Apple's profitability would suffer, and he would be replaced by a CEO without environmental misgivings. That's why in many cases, engaging in an activity while calling for that activity to be banned, is perfectly sensible. You don't want to do something, but the market forces you, and the only way to stop, is for everyone to stop. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ explains it well.

chewz 7y ago
Well I am aware of the dilema. But your argument the usual defense line of war criminals. "I had to do that, if not me someone else will do it instead". Each of us is taking some moral choices. Tim Cook isn't acting under a gun to his head. Public speaking where Cook is signalling concern about enviroment is just hypocrytical virtue signaling in my humble opinion.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  It's not like Apple is some struggling underdog for Christ's sake. With hundreds of billions in liquid reserves they could afford to optimize 90% for profit and q0% for sustainability instead of 100% for profit.