4 ms·

Unlike "us", we never rewrote our history, right?

by dm3730 7y ago

johnchristopher 7y ago
Any example of events 'us' is actively removing from history the same way China is doing with the the Tiananmen event ? edit: I can think of the Armenian genocide but it's not yet dealt with the same diligence and tech level than the Tiananmen event is.
- lustysocietyorg 7y ago
  There are countless examples of efforts trying to hide information from the public and of promotion of FUD against other people. Macron vows to tighten media control because 'fake news threatens democracy' (2018-01-04). https://www.rt.com/news/414945-macron-france-fake-news-law/ https://www.rt.com/news/414945-macron-france-fake-news-law/ SIX MILLION JEWS 1915-1938. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk ON CONTACT: CRUCIFYING JULIAN ASSANGE (2018-11-24) time 798. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hyZktgMp4Q&t=798 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hyZktgMp4Q&t=798 Assange Exposes Democrat Fascists, Torturers & Warmongers (2019-04-15). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbWiPe--U3E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbWiPe--U3E Glorification of US war criminals by US politicians. https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1033516711201386502 https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1033516711201386502 https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1068900206136180736 https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1068900206136180736 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxEIZEP5Ptw&feature=youtu.be&t=108 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxEIZEP5Ptw&feature=youtu.be... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBo9X5MZqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBo9X5MZqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE Hague Tribunal Exonerates Slobodan Milosevic Again (2017-12-17). https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/07/hague-tribunal-exonerates-slobodan-milosevic-again/ https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/07/hague-trib... How U.K. Spies Hacked a European Ally and Got Away With It (2018-02-17). https://theintercept.com/2018/02/17/gchq-belgacom-investigation-europe-hack/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/17/gchq-belgacom-investigat... Quote 1: The Belgacom breach sparked outrage in Europe’s political institutions and made global headlines. But Belgium’s effort to identify the spies responsible and hold them accountable faced roadblocks at almost every turn. Europol, the European Union’s law enforcement agency, refused to assist. Prosecutors overseeing the case feared triggering a major diplomatic dispute and were reluctant to pursue it aggressively. Meanwhile, British spies tried to destroy the evidence. Quote 2: “We wanted to show that as a small country, we would not be bullied,” said a source close to the investigation. “But we were fighting against two big cyberarmies from the U.K. and the U.S. We knew we could never win this.”
- nativeAmericans 7y ago
  Cry for the Indians. Die for the Indians. Cry for the Indians. Cry, cry, cry for the Indians. Love the land and fellow man. Peace is what we strive to have. Some folks have none of this. Hatred and prejudice. Forced out, brave and mighty. Stolen land, they can't fight it. Hold on, to pride and tradition. Even though they know how much their lives are really missin, we're dissin them... On reservations. A hopeless situation. Respect is something that you earn. Our indian brothers' getting burned. Original American. Turned into second class citizen.
- y4mi 7y ago
  I'm neither the parent poster nor American, but from a Europeans perspective I'd say that America handles their censorship differently. Dissenters disappear in China. In America they're discredited and made into conspiracy theorist. But nonetheless: the tiananmen square is quite unique in it's bloodiness.i know of nothing even remotely as bad as military personal killing unarmed civilians in the hundreds which mostly just try to flee.
  - Drfamiliarhate 7y ago
    Maybe The Bonus Army in 1932, though far less intensified in terms of casualties. Many labor movements and strikes in 19th and early 21th century also led to death of up to 100 by law enforcement, state troops or private guards hired by business owner. Most recent case I can think of is the Kent University Shooting in which national guard killed 4 students protesting Vietnam War. Some witnesses said these soliders was not self-defensing but deliberately shot at the crowd
  - powerapple 7y ago
    Because no one cares to report anything else. How is it unique in its bloodiness? You are rendering the human history a lovely picture of peace and kind. It may not be as nice as the Chinese government portrait it, and it may not be as bad as europeans portrait it either. There is nothing wrong with leaving it to the past and move one.
    - y4mi 7y ago
      > How is it unique in its bloodiness? You are rendering the human history a lovely picture of peace and kind Absolutely not. It's uniqueness comes from is bloodiness in the context of the situation. Most crimes of that caliber happen by systematically alienating a people, 'legitimizing' these clearly inhumane actions in some way. Take the Holocaust for example. Jews were portrayed as the source of all problems for years and subsequently slaughtered in the millions. Clearly inhumane and wrong... And way worse than the square was, but still a 'us vs them' situation. On the square, you got the military doing a parade and civilians standing in the way in a demonstration. Their only crime was their unwillingness to let the parade continue. And the military opened fire on these people, because they were standing in the way and unwilling to leave You don't think that such a situation is unique?
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Any example of events 'us' is actively removing from history the same way China is doing with the the Tiananmen event ? All kinds of events, from the Philippines war, to provoking Japan in WWII, to Mosaddegh, Vietnam atrocities, to the bloody US labour history, and so on [1]. Though in the US, as long as their importance is downplayed at official politics and the educational system, you can still let people talk and write books about those events, since nobody really cares. A lot of the suffering in those events happened to people outside the country anyway. Whereas in China, talk about their things could seriously polarize people and have extended consequences (not just the CCP elites falling from grace, but also a hellish period of power struggles to fill the power vacuum, even a civil war). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_Un...
  - johnchristopher 7y ago
    > Though in the US, as long as their importance is downplayed at official politics and the educational system, you can still let people talk and write books about those events, Which is a far cry from what China is doing regarding Tiananmen. The same for Labour day.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >Which is a far cry from what China is doing regarding Tiananmen. Well, that's because talking about those things in the use and people wont care anyway (it's not like they'll rebel against the government). Whereas talking about those things in China could create mayhem and turn the country into a chaos of civil war and power struggles as I wrote above. So the US can afford to be magnanimous about it. In areas where it wants to keep stuff secret, people exposing them have the fate of Snowden, Manning, Assange and co.
- chewz 7y ago
  Labor Day is internationally on May 1st to commemorate Haymarket Masacre in Chicago 1886. Not in US however. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day
- MayeulC 7y ago
  Not the same way, but this is a thread I stumbled upon the other day: https://www.reddit.com/r/fakehistoryporn/comments/bm2ek3/the_war_of_1812_1812/emtjqdb?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x https://www.reddit.com/r/fakehistoryporn/comments/bm2ek3/the... Instead of "active censorship", history gets rewritten much like our own memories, after all: we tend to keep the ones (or the viewpoints) we are more comfortable with. I don't even think there is a need for a concerted effort.
  - johnchristopher 7y ago
    Interesting read, thanks.
vixen99 7y ago
You can show whether it's 'right' or not by providing some examples.
hereiskkb 7y ago
Your whataboutism isn't helping.
- lustysocietyorg 7y ago
  The topic is lies by the government. China in particular. Mentioning other information than the already mentioned information is part of a good discussion and why social media is that interesting and important.
- coldtea 7y ago
  A, what once was called "pointing out the hypocrisy" is now called "whataboutism". A perfect way for people living in glass houses to throw all the stones they like at others unharmed...

Unlike "us", we never rewrote our history, right?

by dm3730 7y ago

Unlike "us", we never rewrote our history, right?

Any example of events 'us' is actively removing from history the same way China is doing with the the Tiananmen event ? edit: I can think of the Armenian genocide but it's not yet dealt with the same diligence and tech level than the Tiananmen event is.

lustysocietyorg 7y ago
There are countless examples of efforts trying to hide information from the public and of promotion of FUD against other people. Macron vows to tighten media control because 'fake news threatens democracy' (2018-01-04). https://www.rt.com/news/414945-macron-france-fake-news-law/ https://www.rt.com/news/414945-macron-france-fake-news-law/ SIX MILLION JEWS 1915-1938. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk ON CONTACT: CRUCIFYING JULIAN ASSANGE (2018-11-24) time 798. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hyZktgMp4Q&t=798 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hyZktgMp4Q&t=798 Assange Exposes Democrat Fascists, Torturers & Warmongers (2019-04-15). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbWiPe--U3E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbWiPe--U3E Glorification of US war criminals by US politicians. https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1033516711201386502 https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1033516711201386502 https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1068900206136180736 https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1068900206136180736 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxEIZEP5Ptw&feature=youtu.be&t=108 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxEIZEP5Ptw&feature=youtu.be... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBo9X5MZqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBo9X5MZqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE Hague Tribunal Exonerates Slobodan Milosevic Again (2017-12-17). https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/07/hague-tribunal-exonerates-slobodan-milosevic-again/ https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/07/hague-trib... How U.K. Spies Hacked a European Ally and Got Away With It (2018-02-17). https://theintercept.com/2018/02/17/gchq-belgacom-investigation-europe-hack/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/17/gchq-belgacom-investigat... Quote 1: The Belgacom breach sparked outrage in Europe’s political institutions and made global headlines. But Belgium’s effort to identify the spies responsible and hold them accountable faced roadblocks at almost every turn. Europol, the European Union’s law enforcement agency, refused to assist. Prosecutors overseeing the case feared triggering a major diplomatic dispute and were reluctant to pursue it aggressively. Meanwhile, British spies tried to destroy the evidence. Quote 2: “We wanted to show that as a small country, we would not be bullied,” said a source close to the investigation. “But we were fighting against two big cyberarmies from the U.K. and the U.S. We knew we could never win this.”
nativeAmericans 7y ago
Cry for the Indians. Die for the Indians. Cry for the Indians. Cry, cry, cry for the Indians. Love the land and fellow man. Peace is what we strive to have. Some folks have none of this. Hatred and prejudice. Forced out, brave and mighty. Stolen land, they can't fight it. Hold on, to pride and tradition. Even though they know how much their lives are really missin, we're dissin them... On reservations. A hopeless situation. Respect is something that you earn. Our indian brothers' getting burned. Original American. Turned into second class citizen.
y4mi 7y ago
I'm neither the parent poster nor American, but from a Europeans perspective I'd say that America handles their censorship differently. Dissenters disappear in China. In America they're discredited and made into conspiracy theorist. But nonetheless: the tiananmen square is quite unique in it's bloodiness.i know of nothing even remotely as bad as military personal killing unarmed civilians in the hundreds which mostly just try to flee.
- Drfamiliarhate 7y ago
  Maybe The Bonus Army in 1932, though far less intensified in terms of casualties. Many labor movements and strikes in 19th and early 21th century also led to death of up to 100 by law enforcement, state troops or private guards hired by business owner. Most recent case I can think of is the Kent University Shooting in which national guard killed 4 students protesting Vietnam War. Some witnesses said these soliders was not self-defensing but deliberately shot at the crowd
- powerapple 7y ago
  Because no one cares to report anything else. How is it unique in its bloodiness? You are rendering the human history a lovely picture of peace and kind. It may not be as nice as the Chinese government portrait it, and it may not be as bad as europeans portrait it either. There is nothing wrong with leaving it to the past and move one.
  - y4mi 7y ago
    > How is it unique in its bloodiness? You are rendering the human history a lovely picture of peace and kind Absolutely not. It's uniqueness comes from is bloodiness in the context of the situation. Most crimes of that caliber happen by systematically alienating a people, 'legitimizing' these clearly inhumane actions in some way. Take the Holocaust for example. Jews were portrayed as the source of all problems for years and subsequently slaughtered in the millions. Clearly inhumane and wrong... And way worse than the square was, but still a 'us vs them' situation. On the square, you got the military doing a parade and civilians standing in the way in a demonstration. Their only crime was their unwillingness to let the parade continue. And the military opened fire on these people, because they were standing in the way and unwilling to leave You don't think that such a situation is unique?
coldtea 7y ago
>Any example of events 'us' is actively removing from history the same way China is doing with the the Tiananmen event ? All kinds of events, from the Philippines war, to provoking Japan in WWII, to Mosaddegh, Vietnam atrocities, to the bloody US labour history, and so on [1]. Though in the US, as long as their importance is downplayed at official politics and the educational system, you can still let people talk and write books about those events, since nobody really cares. A lot of the suffering in those events happened to people outside the country anyway. Whereas in China, talk about their things could seriously polarize people and have extended consequences (not just the CCP elites falling from grace, but also a hellish period of power struggles to fill the power vacuum, even a civil war). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_Un...
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  > Though in the US, as long as their importance is downplayed at official politics and the educational system, you can still let people talk and write books about those events, Which is a far cry from what China is doing regarding Tiananmen. The same for Labour day.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Which is a far cry from what China is doing regarding Tiananmen. Well, that's because talking about those things in the use and people wont care anyway (it's not like they'll rebel against the government). Whereas talking about those things in China could create mayhem and turn the country into a chaos of civil war and power struggles as I wrote above. So the US can afford to be magnanimous about it. In areas where it wants to keep stuff secret, people exposing them have the fate of Snowden, Manning, Assange and co.
chewz 7y ago
Labor Day is internationally on May 1st to commemorate Haymarket Masacre in Chicago 1886. Not in US however. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day
MayeulC 7y ago
Not the same way, but this is a thread I stumbled upon the other day: https://www.reddit.com/r/fakehistoryporn/comments/bm2ek3/the_war_of_1812_1812/emtjqdb?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x https://www.reddit.com/r/fakehistoryporn/comments/bm2ek3/the... Instead of "active censorship", history gets rewritten much like our own memories, after all: we tend to keep the ones (or the viewpoints) we are more comfortable with. I don't even think there is a need for a concerted effort.
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  Interesting read, thanks.

vixen99 7y ago

You can show whether it's 'right' or not by providing some examples.

hereiskkb 7y ago

Your whataboutism isn't helping.

lustysocietyorg 7y ago
The topic is lies by the government. China in particular. Mentioning other information than the already mentioned information is part of a good discussion and why social media is that interesting and important.
coldtea 7y ago
A, what once was called "pointing out the hypocrisy" is now called "whataboutism". A perfect way for people living in glass houses to throw all the stones they like at others unharmed...