5 ms·

Suppose you buy a Tesla and in 10 months they fold. Who then maintains the proprietary software that keeps the vehicle running?

bouncycastle 7y ago
Hopefully they can open source it and start and organisation like Mozilla. Others could use the software to make their own "Tesla" too.
- nitrogen 7y ago
  Most likely some other company would buy anything valuable before it could be given away for free.
chroem- 7y ago
I would be much more concerned about all the hardware that is pretty much unserviceable by anyone except Tesla.
cynusx 7y ago
If Tesla stock is at lower multiples it would become an interesting take-over target so I wouldn't worry about this
stabbles 7y ago
Are there historical examples of this happening in other companies? It's scary to think the answer to ops question is not immediately obvious.
- dylan604 7y ago
  This seems to be similar to any of the digital media companies that used DRM on all of their content that suddenly could not be played when they shut down the service.
- twblalock 7y ago
  This sort of happened to Saab, but since they were basically badge-engineered GM cars at that time it is still easy to get parts.
- selectodude 7y ago
  When Daewoo left the US market 20 years ago they pretty much just upped and left.
- wasdfff 7y ago
  Delorean folded but iirc maintained their oem market
- Marsymars 7y ago
  There are many auto manufacturers that have left various markets or folded at various points in time. Most major recent one I can think of off the top of my head that isn't mentioned in another comment is Suzuki leaving the North American market in 2012 (USA) / 2014 (Canada).
semi-extrinsic 7y ago
I'm curious whether Tesla mortgages are sufficiently concentrated that there are specific instruments that collateralize large portions of them, and you could buy credit default swaps on those. I mean, if the value of the underlying asset is suddenly reduced, you'd expect delinquencies to rise markedly.
BinaryIdiot 7y ago
I guess whoever buys up that aspect of Tesla when the shareholders sell it to pay them and the company's debts off. If someone does it I would imagine they would charge for it. Considering Tesla is considered a luxury brand there would probably be a decent business there.
dylan604 7y ago
Would this not be just like any other software that becomes abandon-ware? Use it if you want, but just know there's no recourse if it doesn't work. Also, this would be a good example of why right-to-repair should be allowed.
Reason077 7y ago
"Who then maintains the proprietary software that keeps the vehicle running?" There are a number of Tesla vehicles out in the wild that for various reasons no longer connect to Tesla and do not receive over-the-air software updates. Some of them are running software versions that are now several years old. Sure, they don't get the latest software features or UI design, but as a car they still work just fine.
- sneak 7y ago
  So, pretty much like every other car in the universe that never gets a single update for its decade+ lifespan after it leaves the factory.
  - lttlrck 7y ago
    ECU and TCU firmware updates are not uncommon.
  - wasdfff 7y ago
    Recalls can happen a decade later even. Would tesla owners even realize a critical component is defective after the company folds, let alone recieve a recall repair? If I owned a tesla and they folded I’d trade in my car that afternoon.
twblalock 7y ago
This is a good question whether Tesla survives or not. If you buy a car that is heavily dependent on software, even if the brand does not go out of business, who will support it in 10 or 20 years? Most automakers do not support their vintage cars or make new parts for them.
- mikeash 7y ago
  A 20 year old car today is heavily dependent on software, and they still seem to work.
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    Are they though? The software in 20 year old cars is more akin to that in a digital wristwatch (as in, super basic and never needs updating). Also, old cars contain far more electro-mechanical components than software. In comparison, modern cars are Internet-connected computers on wheels (especially Teslas). For example, my 1999 VW has a mechanical headlight switch, dead simple mechanical starter engagement, manually-controlled climate controls (there's a direct physical connection between the dials and the flaps), electro-mechanical wiper control relay module, a basic self-contained radio, manual windows, and directly switched interior lights. Heck, the only thing that is computer-controlled is the engine timing, fuel injection, turbo actuator, dashboard dials, ABS, accelerator pedal/cruise control, airbags, and locks. And my car is hardly out of the ordinary.
    - mikeash 7y ago
      Software doesn’t just fail, though. If it works today, it’ll work tomorrow. You could lose features that depend on connectivity, but you’ll still be able to drive.
      - frosted-flakes 7y ago
        Doesn't the 3 model require a phone to unlock, and if you want a separate fob, you need to pay extra? What happens when the phone app is no longer available? I don't like that it doesn't even have a mechanical key.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
What kind of car are you driving??? My Acura 2016 doesn’t support AppleCar and never will. I don’t think there are any other cars out there that get updates anyways!
pbreit 7y ago
In the unlikely event that Tesla goes bankrupt, that actually keeps the company going while it sorts out its debts.

bouncycastle 7y ago

Hopefully they can open source it and start and organisation like Mozilla. Others could use the software to make their own "Tesla" too.

nitrogen 7y ago
Most likely some other company would buy anything valuable before it could be given away for free.

chroem- 7y ago

I would be much more concerned about all the hardware that is pretty much unserviceable by anyone except Tesla.

cynusx 7y ago

If Tesla stock is at lower multiples it would become an interesting take-over target so I wouldn't worry about this

stabbles 7y ago

Are there historical examples of this happening in other companies? It's scary to think the answer to ops question is not immediately obvious.

dylan604 7y ago
This seems to be similar to any of the digital media companies that used DRM on all of their content that suddenly could not be played when they shut down the service.
twblalock 7y ago
This sort of happened to Saab, but since they were basically badge-engineered GM cars at that time it is still easy to get parts.
selectodude 7y ago
When Daewoo left the US market 20 years ago they pretty much just upped and left.
wasdfff 7y ago
Delorean folded but iirc maintained their oem market
Marsymars 7y ago
There are many auto manufacturers that have left various markets or folded at various points in time. Most major recent one I can think of off the top of my head that isn't mentioned in another comment is Suzuki leaving the North American market in 2012 (USA) / 2014 (Canada).

semi-extrinsic 7y ago

I'm curious whether Tesla mortgages are sufficiently concentrated that there are specific instruments that collateralize large portions of them, and you could buy credit default swaps on those. I mean, if the value of the underlying asset is suddenly reduced, you'd expect delinquencies to rise markedly.

BinaryIdiot 7y ago

I guess whoever buys up that aspect of Tesla when the shareholders sell it to pay them and the company's debts off. If someone does it I would imagine they would charge for it. Considering Tesla is considered a luxury brand there would probably be a decent business there.

dylan604 7y ago

Would this not be just like any other software that becomes abandon-ware? Use it if you want, but just know there's no recourse if it doesn't work. Also, this would be a good example of why right-to-repair should be allowed.

Reason077 7y ago

"Who then maintains the proprietary software that keeps the vehicle running?" There are a number of Tesla vehicles out in the wild that for various reasons no longer connect to Tesla and do not receive over-the-air software updates. Some of them are running software versions that are now several years old. Sure, they don't get the latest software features or UI design, but as a car they still work just fine.

sneak 7y ago
So, pretty much like every other car in the universe that never gets a single update for its decade+ lifespan after it leaves the factory.
- lttlrck 7y ago
  ECU and TCU firmware updates are not uncommon.
- wasdfff 7y ago
  Recalls can happen a decade later even. Would tesla owners even realize a critical component is defective after the company folds, let alone recieve a recall repair? If I owned a tesla and they folded I’d trade in my car that afternoon.

twblalock 7y ago

This is a good question whether Tesla survives or not. If you buy a car that is heavily dependent on software, even if the brand does not go out of business, who will support it in 10 or 20 years? Most automakers do not support their vintage cars or make new parts for them.

mikeash 7y ago
A 20 year old car today is heavily dependent on software, and they still seem to work.
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  Are they though? The software in 20 year old cars is more akin to that in a digital wristwatch (as in, super basic and never needs updating). Also, old cars contain far more electro-mechanical components than software. In comparison, modern cars are Internet-connected computers on wheels (especially Teslas). For example, my 1999 VW has a mechanical headlight switch, dead simple mechanical starter engagement, manually-controlled climate controls (there's a direct physical connection between the dials and the flaps), electro-mechanical wiper control relay module, a basic self-contained radio, manual windows, and directly switched interior lights. Heck, the only thing that is computer-controlled is the engine timing, fuel injection, turbo actuator, dashboard dials, ABS, accelerator pedal/cruise control, airbags, and locks. And my car is hardly out of the ordinary.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Software doesn’t just fail, though. If it works today, it’ll work tomorrow. You could lose features that depend on connectivity, but you’ll still be able to drive.
    - frosted-flakes 7y ago
      Doesn't the 3 model require a phone to unlock, and if you want a separate fob, you need to pay extra? What happens when the phone app is no longer available? I don't like that it doesn't even have a mechanical key.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

What kind of car are you driving??? My Acura 2016 doesn’t support AppleCar and never will. I don’t think there are any other cars out there that get updates anyways!

pbreit 7y ago

In the unlikely event that Tesla goes bankrupt, that actually keeps the company going while it sorts out its debts.