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Italy opens antitrust probe into Google because of a rejected Android Auto app

62 points by msh 7y ago

protomyth 7y ago
Google allows third-party developers to develop Android Auto-compatible versions of their apps, but only if they offer media or messaging services. Enel X Recharge is mostly dedicated to helping drivers find charging stations for electric cars. Why would you block apps that are direction services?
- bingobob 7y ago
  Media and Message apps fit in a framework that google has provided this allows them to update the android auto UI with no changes for any of these apps. they haven't done this for map apps yet but Waze is now supported. but this took a long time. it could be possible there building the framework for maps just there not ready for 3rd party's to access it the internet is quick to judge but you have to walk before you run. this is a system that will run on millions of cars and in the future possibly billions. with Android Automotive OS its going to be part of the car so getting this correct is a big deal you want it supportable well into the future.
  - product50 7y ago
    This is unlikely to be the reason since the 3rd party app was already developed for Android Auto and Google rejected it thereafter.
    - xarball 7y ago
      I work in the auto industry in HMDs, and I think the last comment was somewhat on the right track, but perhaps missing bits of a larger issue at hand. We can get the impression that Waze was built on a lot of technical debt by the amount of corners Google had to cut to even get it on screen -- how much it doesn't fit in their UI framework, and how poorly it runs when streamed to the HMD. Even Google Maps in satellite view runs terribly on the 90% of vehicles on the road that implement Android Auto. The underlying protocol used to convey that amount of data to the HMD runs like crap on most vehicles, and for better or worse the current protocol is pretty much frozen in time because most vehicles don't apply OTA updates yet. (Some manufacturers even charge labor for applying updates!) The reason I'm picking on Waze specifically though is because HMD's have much stranger User <-> Interface considerations for what is safe, legal, and not crappy UI design. Add fire to fury, the performance is barely passable today. Apps must have this, and so will Google if they are to be successful here. Whether Google even knows where they're going with a reliable HMD framework for using cookie-cutter UI components is largely unknown, but I don't think they're satisfied with the current API.
      - sofaofthedamned 7y ago
        That's exactly the sort of comment I come here for. We retrofitted (i.e. hacked) AA onto my wifes 124 Spider. I've noticed it judders a lot when in satellite mode, but not in normal. Assumed this wouldn't be the case as it's essentially a video stream being played with touch events sent back and USB audio. Maybe some headunits are a bit underpowered for this? That said on my Kia Cee'd it runs like a dream regardless, there is never a glitch. Any more insight on the way AA and Carplay work from a manufacturers PoV?
        BoorishBears 7y ago
        Did you install the AA hardware from Mazda, or are you using the software tweak, which is not known for performance
        sofaofthedamned 7y ago
        Can I put the Mazda hardware in the spider?
        BoorishBears 7y ago
        Yes, the infortainment (and almost all of the interior) is Mazda parts. https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2019/02/18/universal-version-70-fiat-tweak/ https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2019/02/18/un... If you go through with it, pay attention to the version numbers. I personally didn’t install it yet because previously you’d lose some functionality like navigation for the next owner. With the new tweaks that’s not an isssue. - The software AA is laggy because it’s essentially simulating proper AA. There’s a note saying it’s not recommended anymore for being out of date and buggy
        sofaofthedamned 7y ago
        Awesome, thank you!
      - 7y ago
jeroenhd 7y ago
Does anyone have a screenshot of the rejected Android Auto app? Because my experience with apps from privatised government bodies isn't great and I can easily see how such an organisation can indeed create a buggy or unsafe app and cry wolf when they get caught out doing so.
- bonzini 7y ago
  It's usually hit or miss. The Italian post service for example provides 2FA for government services and it's pretty nice and easy to use (the website shows a QR code that you scan with the app).
writepub 7y ago
Somehow Apple seems to get away with blocking whatever app they so choose, government or not, and not face antitrust charges. Most developers would agree that Apple's approval process is a lot less transparent, cutthroat and arbitrary, and yet nothing on them. I bet a similar app wouldn't pass CarPlay standards, and Italy hasn't done anything on the issue
- ViViDboarder 7y ago
  The argument seems to be that Google is rejecting this app to force users to search for it in Google Maps. This is significant because that’s a different line of business for Google. Apple is more restricted, but they do it for control of the user experience, which, as a developer, I’m not a fan of. Apple is in less businesses and don’t as frequently use their restrictions to direct/force users into another one. The one case I can think of is restrictions allowing only Apple Music. Though other music apps are supported in Car Play, Siri will only use Apple Music. All that said... this case seems like a stretch. I’m not familiar with Italian law though, but is Android Auto so pervasive that this would have merit? The other antitrust suits are regarding search or Android, where Google has a much larger grip on their market.
- anoncake 7y ago
  That might very well be because regulators are busy with Google, which has a greater impact.
znpy 7y ago
>> "Android Auto is designed with safety in mind, to minimize distractions and to ensure apps can be used safely when driving" > "Google allows third-party developers to develop Android Auto-compatible versions of their apps, but only if they offer media or messaging services." Messaging while driving is distracting...
- zamadatix 7y ago
  I assumed "minimize distractions" = "meets regulatory compliance in areas it's going to be published to". Doing anything but driving will driving is distracting but some things are illegal to do certain ways. E.g. in many places you can dictate a text but not operate a handheld phone.
wanderer2323 7y ago
I guess if you have a large enough hammer (antitrust probes/fines) then everything does become a nail, including application stores' guidelines.

62 points by msh 7y ago

Google allows third-party developers to develop Android Auto-compatible versions of their apps, but only if they offer media or messaging services. Enel X Recharge is mostly dedicated to helping drivers find charging stations for electric cars. Why would you block apps that are direction services?

bingobob 7y ago
Media and Message apps fit in a framework that google has provided this allows them to update the android auto UI with no changes for any of these apps. they haven't done this for map apps yet but Waze is now supported. but this took a long time. it could be possible there building the framework for maps just there not ready for 3rd party's to access it the internet is quick to judge but you have to walk before you run. this is a system that will run on millions of cars and in the future possibly billions. with Android Automotive OS its going to be part of the car so getting this correct is a big deal you want it supportable well into the future.
- product50 7y ago
  This is unlikely to be the reason since the 3rd party app was already developed for Android Auto and Google rejected it thereafter.
  - xarball 7y ago
    I work in the auto industry in HMDs, and I think the last comment was somewhat on the right track, but perhaps missing bits of a larger issue at hand. We can get the impression that Waze was built on a lot of technical debt by the amount of corners Google had to cut to even get it on screen -- how much it doesn't fit in their UI framework, and how poorly it runs when streamed to the HMD. Even Google Maps in satellite view runs terribly on the 90% of vehicles on the road that implement Android Auto. The underlying protocol used to convey that amount of data to the HMD runs like crap on most vehicles, and for better or worse the current protocol is pretty much frozen in time because most vehicles don't apply OTA updates yet. (Some manufacturers even charge labor for applying updates!) The reason I'm picking on Waze specifically though is because HMD's have much stranger User <-> Interface considerations for what is safe, legal, and not crappy UI design. Add fire to fury, the performance is barely passable today. Apps must have this, and so will Google if they are to be successful here. Whether Google even knows where they're going with a reliable HMD framework for using cookie-cutter UI components is largely unknown, but I don't think they're satisfied with the current API.
    - sofaofthedamned 7y ago
      That's exactly the sort of comment I come here for. We retrofitted (i.e. hacked) AA onto my wifes 124 Spider. I've noticed it judders a lot when in satellite mode, but not in normal. Assumed this wouldn't be the case as it's essentially a video stream being played with touch events sent back and USB audio. Maybe some headunits are a bit underpowered for this? That said on my Kia Cee'd it runs like a dream regardless, there is never a glitch. Any more insight on the way AA and Carplay work from a manufacturers PoV?
      - BoorishBears 7y ago
        Did you install the AA hardware from Mazda, or are you using the software tweak, which is not known for performance
        sofaofthedamned 7y ago
        Can I put the Mazda hardware in the spider?
        BoorishBears 7y ago
        Yes, the infortainment (and almost all of the interior) is Mazda parts. https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2019/02/18/universal-version-70-fiat-tweak/ https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2019/02/18/un... If you go through with it, pay attention to the version numbers. I personally didn’t install it yet because previously you’d lose some functionality like navigation for the next owner. With the new tweaks that’s not an isssue. - The software AA is laggy because it’s essentially simulating proper AA. There’s a note saying it’s not recommended anymore for being out of date and buggy
        sofaofthedamned 7y ago
        Awesome, thank you!
    - 7y ago

jeroenhd 7y ago

Does anyone have a screenshot of the rejected Android Auto app? Because my experience with apps from privatised government bodies isn't great and I can easily see how such an organisation can indeed create a buggy or unsafe app and cry wolf when they get caught out doing so.

bonzini 7y ago
It's usually hit or miss. The Italian post service for example provides 2FA for government services and it's pretty nice and easy to use (the website shows a QR code that you scan with the app).

writepub 7y ago

Somehow Apple seems to get away with blocking whatever app they so choose, government or not, and not face antitrust charges. Most developers would agree that Apple's approval process is a lot less transparent, cutthroat and arbitrary, and yet nothing on them. I bet a similar app wouldn't pass CarPlay standards, and Italy hasn't done anything on the issue

ViViDboarder 7y ago
The argument seems to be that Google is rejecting this app to force users to search for it in Google Maps. This is significant because that’s a different line of business for Google. Apple is more restricted, but they do it for control of the user experience, which, as a developer, I’m not a fan of. Apple is in less businesses and don’t as frequently use their restrictions to direct/force users into another one. The one case I can think of is restrictions allowing only Apple Music. Though other music apps are supported in Car Play, Siri will only use Apple Music. All that said... this case seems like a stretch. I’m not familiar with Italian law though, but is Android Auto so pervasive that this would have merit? The other antitrust suits are regarding search or Android, where Google has a much larger grip on their market.
anoncake 7y ago
That might very well be because regulators are busy with Google, which has a greater impact.

znpy 7y ago

>> "Android Auto is designed with safety in mind, to minimize distractions and to ensure apps can be used safely when driving" > "Google allows third-party developers to develop Android Auto-compatible versions of their apps, but only if they offer media or messaging services." Messaging while driving is distracting...

zamadatix 7y ago
I assumed "minimize distractions" = "meets regulatory compliance in areas it's going to be published to". Doing anything but driving will driving is distracting but some things are illegal to do certain ways. E.g. in many places you can dictate a text but not operate a handheld phone.

wanderer2323 7y ago

I guess if you have a large enough hammer (antitrust probes/fines) then everything does become a nail, including application stores' guidelines.