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Hopefully, this does not get down-voted. I have lived all over the US, and noticed that only in California do I find young homeless people. They generally seem
by dforrestwilson 7y ago
Hopefully, this does not get down-voted.
I have lived all over the US, and noticed that only in California do I find young homeless people. They generally seem happy and even have dogs.
I never saw this in NYC or anywhere else on the East Coast or in the Midwest.
Is there a reason why the demographics would be different?
- klipt 7y agoWeather?
- lostgame 7y agoWeather. I used to be homeless in Toronto (at lived in the Don Valley forest for a time) and it's actually kinda fun - in the summer. As soon as that first cold spike hits, you feel like death inside.
- yostrovs 7y agoCan you help clarify why so many of these young homeless with dogs also prefer camo as their clothing color of choice?
- b_tterc_p 7y agoCamo is fairly popular among young people, homeless or otherwise. I would venture to guess it’s cheap and requires less washing too.
- badpun 7y agoDirt is less visible on them?
- pixxel 7y agoTheir tuxedos are at the dry cleaners.
- dsfyu404ed 7y agoBecause BDUs/ACUs and similar are cheap, common enough at thrift stores and highly durable. I make almost 6 figures and I have BDUs I use when I'm doing manual labor.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- benatkin 7y agoIt's outdoor gear. A lot of outdoor gear shops have surplus in their name, because there's a link between the outdoors, hunting/fishing, and the military. A lot of outdoors people don't like it and would rather wear patagonia vests (like VCs do), but camo gear certainly isn't an unusual choice for outdoors types. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_store
- hn_throwaway_99 7y agoWould you rather spend winter in NYC or SF? Would you rather spend summer in Atlanta or SF?
- Arubis 7y agoAnecdotally, you will also see this in Denver; however, we have Winter, so it is not year-round.
- jameslk 7y agoAnd Boulder. Take a walk down Pearl Street Mall and you'll see "lifestyle homeless"
- ng12 7y agoThey have them in NYC. They hang out around Union Square during the summer. Some (many? most?) of these kids are homeless by choice, it's a subculture as much as circumstance. They flock to the Bay Area (Berkeley/Oakland, and the Haight area) to be a part of the scene.
- mcmoose75 7y agoYeah, they're often referred to as "crust punks" or "crusties" (and I think that's the name they use for themselves). Plenty of articles about them- absolutely homeless by choice, and migrate up/ down the East Coast (often by hopping freight rail) seasonally https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/07/27/summer-brings-wave-of-crust-punk-homeless-nomads-to-east-village/ https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/07/27/summer-brings-wave-o...
- macspoofing 7y agoThey are also a huge drag on resources designated for homelessness.
- mcmoose75 7y agoYeah- I have a ton of sympathy for folks driven in to homelessness by economic hardship, or mental illness, or even addiction, but the crust punks are INCREDIBLY frustrating for a number of reasons (the one you mention being a big one)
- cyberbanjo 7y agoA crust punk once told me "Why bother when I could work full time in a city that's worth living in to be almost this homeless."
- cyberbanjo 7y agoThey are homeless, in my experience with them.
- shereadsthenews 7y agoIt's not just California. You see the same homeless population in Santa Cruz as you do in Eugene. But these visible homeless are a tiny fraction; what we're talking about here are people living in cars and RVs.
- Gibbon1 7y agoYeah I think the problem with viability is also, some 'homeless' in SF are actually housed, they're just poor n scruffy. Last three years though I'm seeing people that are homeless and not scruffy. Friend of a friend was living in a panel truck with her 6 year old daughter for a year. My solution is fairly simple, force the tech companies to direct their firehose of free cash somewhere else like Detroit or Albuquerque.
- hangonhn 7y agoUh... how many places have you lived in and for how long, and how much contact have you had with the homeless? And when we say homeless, what do you mean? Those who temporarily don't have homes, those don't want to live in a permanent structure, etc. I've lived in the South, New England, Texas, and California. There are homeless people every where. Before you conclude that the demographics are actually different (I'm not disputing it is -- California is different but not as stark as you may think), ensure that your observations aren't biased (I don't mean personal bias but some places put more effort into hiding their homeless population).
- colechristensen 7y agoThere is a spectrum of choice when it comes to homelessness. One extreme are those with severe mental and physical disabilities and the other is... https://vanlifecustoms.com/vans https://vanlifecustoms.com/vans There are quite a few people who actively aspire to live in vans on the streets of the bay area. There are more who are on the end of having other options (but don't want to, say, have a connivance store job in a small midwest town) but don't take them for whatever reason. If you had a few resources, wouldn't you rather try to make your way to live in SF instead of NY, especially in January? Being young makes it more likely that the lifestyle is a choice and when it isn't, being young makes it easier to migrate to the best possible place to be homeless.
- samsolomon 7y agoWe can debate about definitions, but I wouldn't call people living out of expensive, customized vans homeless. Those people still have a roof over their heads. They just don't have a mailing address. EDIT: I stand corrected. Apparently, San Francisco does count those among the homeless. > The number of people living in cars and campers grew — a big part of the reason the number of unsheltered people increased, the city said.
- lazyasciiart 7y agoA lot of those, I expect the vast majority of them, are in a regular 4 door sedan, or a shitty old camper that barely runs. People living in cars, on a friends couch, etc, all count as homeless.
- colechristensen 7y agoThe streets in the peninsula are lined with campers and vans in varying levels of decay, but mostly functional if a bit unclean. I've been thinking about doing a dashcam of 10 miles of El Camino Real to show the extent to people unfamiliar.
- scruple 7y ago
- pixelrevision 7y agoI lived in SF for 20 years and now live in NYC. I see young homeless people here all the time but they generally look very down and out. The ones you see that are care free with the dogs are more "travelers" that benefit from the good weather on the west coast. A lot of the more permenant homeless population in SF are mentally ill with nowhere to go.
- benatkin 7y agoIt's mostly the weather. I prefer the weather in Miami to the weather in SF by just a little bit, but if I were homeless, it wouldn't even come close. I would vastly prefer the weather in SF. The weather is a big factor in peoples' decisions to move places. It's near the top of the list in any discussion on which city people would prefer to live in on the city-data forums. People who aren't homeless take the air conditioning or heating for granted when comparing the weather in two different cities.
- microtherion 7y agoThe weather in the Bay Area in general is pretty pleasant, but San Francisco in particular seems to be a bit of a local minimum, with the foggy and frequently quite cold weather even in summer. As we used to remind our guests before taking them to SF: "There's a reason why there are so many tourists wearing San Francisco branded fleece jackets".
- benatkin 7y agoI thought about it, and AFAICT it only widens the gap between ideal weather for a homeless person and ideal weather for a non-homeless person. For a homeless person, Walnut Creek is going to be worse during the winter because it's cold, and worse during the summer because it's hot. For a non-homeless person, San Francisco is going to be worse during the June Gloom because they might be stuck in an office during the times that the sun comes out.
- joelrunyon 7y agoAlso very prevalent in Boulder.
- benatkin 7y agoBoulder and Denver have cold, but it's mild enough that it can be dealt with somewhat using coats, blankets, sleeping bags, and tents. It doesn't have heat in the summers like New York City or Chicago do, or most of the year like Atlanta, Houston, and Miami do. 20 degrees below room temperature is much easier to handle than 20 degrees above room temperature, because there isn't anything wearable that protects people from heat like coats protect people from cold.
- hawaiian 7y agoIt happens in Hawai'i, too. I volunteer at a homeless shelter and routinely serve young people. Some of them have nicer clothes than I do. There is an episode of Portlandia satirizing young homeless people too, so I'd imagine that is another example.
- orblivion 7y agoI saw young homeless people in Montréal about 15 years ago. I don't remember if they were happy or if they had dogs. But I think they were anarchists living out some sort of lifestyle choice. I don't recall seeing any of this when I visited last year.
- nradov 7y agoYes there are very few visible homeless people or beggars in downtown Montreal.
- luckydata 7y agosome of the younger homeless folks are that by choice. The largest % of the population isn't though.
- metalliqaz 7y agoThe abundance of young homeless with dogs also appears to be a thing in France.
- charlesju 7y agoThis is a national problem (ie. anyone in the US can be homeless anywhere), and yet it's trying to be solved at a city level. Logistically that is impossible and makes no sense. As for why there are so many young people homeless in SF, it's probably because SF is one of the most willing cities trying to solve a national problem by itself. We also have great weather (not too hot in the summer, not too cold in the winter). And probably a lot of generous people walking the streets. It's really horrible what our national government has allowed to happen in our country and it's impractical for our city to hold the burden to solve this nation's problems.
- TbobbyZ 7y agoWhat makes you think it can be solved at the national level when it can't even be solved at the city level?
- threatofrain 7y agoI mean the person just argued that it has to be solved at the national level. I think willingness of homeless people to stay in small to medium sized towns with bad winters depends on accessibility of student and tourist populations, but those balance of factors means they sleep in the snow to get their support, but the small town doesn't want to build a shelter and provide extra incentive to stay.
- TbobbyZ 7y agoMy guess is you agree that is has to be solved at the national level? The federal government has spent over $20 trillion to fight the war on poverty since 1965. You really thinking throwing more money at the problem will solve homelessness?
- cannonedhamster 7y agoJust money? No. Money doesn't ever solve problems. The effective use of said money does. You can't find effective uses for money without trying to see what works. Most cities have homeless if some sort. My small city has a homeless population and it took my church guaranteeing to donating time just to keep people alive in the winter. The mayor here routinely destroys places where the homeless live and takes all their resources in the middle of winter. Does our effort help? It keeps a lot of them stay alive over the winter. We also have a community meal on Saturdays to give people community and companionship. No government here helping, but it does require a lot of time and money.
- chaostheory 7y agoI thought that this was an issue on the entire West Coast and not just California.
- dsfyu404ed 7y agoThe people of CA exporting their failed public policy is an issue that covers the entire west coast (and Nevada, Colorado and parts of Texas) to it's no surprise that the homelessness problem follows.
- vkou 7y agoThe only failed public policy is the one that creates such a jaw-dropping amount of homelessness in a country with 11 million millionaires. And that failed public policy isn't prop 13. It's a policy of expecting cities to deal with their homeless problems.
- roguecoder 7y agoNah, it's pretty much prop 13.
- vkou 7y agoNonsense. Neither Seattle or Vancouver have prop 13, and they are dealing with a homelessness crisis. Neither does Hawaii, Vegas, etc. What they all have in common is a federal government that doesn't give a shit.
- atomi 7y agoYou're adding nothing to the discussion with unsubstantiated claims. A "hurr durr" would have sufficed.
- chaostheory 7y agoI didn't realize that Texas is part of the West Coast.
- neilv 7y agoYou can still sometimes see groups of young (teen-ish to 20-ish) homeless people in Harvard Square, including with dogs sometimes, though not as much as you used to. There at least used to be a mobile health clinic that would visit "The Pit" area around the Harvard Square subway station, where young homeless kids would congregate. (Also, non-homeless kids, such as from affluent suburbs, hanging out and being cool/punk/real with the homeless. But some of them actually are homeless, maybe escaping from rough family situations.) I understand there recently is/was a dotcom-y charitable homeless shelter in Harvard Square (unless it already disappeared; sometimes projects fail, or are career steps). Cambridge, Boston, and Massaschusetts are wealthy, and good about social programs and safety nets for the poor, by overall US standards. But the winters get cold, so a lot of homeless who are able might go to the SF Bay Area.
- Sevii 7y agoWe see a good number of young homeless people in Denver.
- MisterOctober 7y agoThis phenomenon exists in Phoenix / Tempe as well. Most likely due to weather [as noted below] and relatively high population
- scythe 7y agoThe young homeless people I knew on the East Coast were almost universally "travelers". They'd hop trains to Florida in the winter and migrate north in the summer. Most of the East Coast is inhospitable at one time of the year or another -- when the low temperature is above 70 F (20 C) or below 30 F (0 C) it can be very hard to sleep outside.
- roguecoder 7y agoOther cities building shelters on the outskirts, and often in areas without public transit access, so that people get off the streets and are out of sight. The weather patterns almost everywhere else in the country also drive people into those shelters, either with extreme heat or cold. Here, there is never a time of year when people have to get off the streets, and we don't have enough beds for them even if they did. The Bay Area is also a huge sprawl, so it isn't clear where we would build such housing to be out of sight and out of mind even if we were going to.
- task_queue 7y ago> I never saw this in NYC or anywhere else on the East Coast or in the Midwest. Human beings have a tough time surviving when exposed to the elements, and winter lasts for 6 months in the North East and Midwest. It is difficult to live when you are soaking wet and it is 34 degrees outside. Hope this helps.