6 ms·

The road is dangerous, the pavement is banned. Scooters and bikes need dedicated road space.

noobermin 7y ago
The article says they are being placed in bike lanes and streets. Paris streets aren't super safe but they are considerably easier to ride on than they are in American sroads.
consp 7y ago
In some parts of Europe that is the case. In most of the world it isn't unfortunately. In the Netherlands those scooters are allowed on the pavement if their max speed is 5kph but this is a grey area if the law. Otherwise they need a "specialized electronic moped" type approval and can either be classified as a bike (max 18kph), a low speed moped (same place on the road as a bike, max 25kph outside, 20 inside cities, requires driving licence and insurance) or moped (helmet, required to go in the car lanes in cities, max 45 kph, requires driving licence and insurance). A rental company came by my office a while back to promote people into buying one. They completely ignored the obvious safety concerns people had as it is far les easy to stay up with smaller wheels but still compared it to biking. We will see where this is going but I would not go fast on one without proper body protection especially if they go > 20 kph.
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  > In the Netherlands those scooters are allowed on the pavement if their max speed is 5kph but this is a grey area if the law. Wrong. The law is quite clear on this. They are not allowed on public roads, unless they are RDW-approved. Those that are approved (like the Segway) are considered mopeds, require a moped-licence and the minimum age of 16, and are consequently forbidden from using the pavement. Cf.: https://www.vraaghetdepolitie.nl/verkeer/overig-verkeer/mag-ik-met-mijn-elektrische-step-buiten-rijden.html https://www.vraaghetdepolitie.nl/verkeer/overig-verkeer/mag-...
anonymou2 7y ago
No way, that's a lie been repeated for the last 60 years to get rid of bicycles and leave the roads only for motorists. Cyclists have the same right to use the public roads as motorists, no more but certainly no less. Some of us, cyclists, are actively fighting against the cyclist apartheid.
- thecatspaw 7y ago
  I dont think the intention is to get rid of bycicles on the streets, rather to seperate them into their own lanes, to increase safety. By fighting against the 'cyclist apartheid' you are fighting against your own safety.
  - anonymou2 7y ago
    Quite the opposite, it is more dangerous to ride in a segregated manner because it contradicts the basic principles of traffic which exist so that vehicles of all types can safely share the road. For example there is a basic principle that says that when you reach an intersection you position yourself according to your destination, right if you are going to turn right and so on. Bike lanes that force vehicles not using it to turn right from the adjacent lane contradict this rule and increase the chances of right hook type of accident. The people who build these things completely ignore that bicycles are vehicles, they only build them for the convenience of motorists not for our safety.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      I think you are confusing the poor excuse of bike lanes in the USA with the much better dedicated biking paths in the Netherlands. The latter don’t have the problems you mentioned.
- isostatic 7y ago
  I read it as "we should get rid of cars and use the space they currently occupy"

The article says they are being placed in bike lanes and streets. Paris streets aren't super safe but they are considerably easier to ride on than they are in American sroads.

consp 7y ago

In some parts of Europe that is the case. In most of the world it isn't unfortunately. In the Netherlands those scooters are allowed on the pavement if their max speed is 5kph but this is a grey area if the law. Otherwise they need a "specialized electronic moped" type approval and can either be classified as a bike (max 18kph), a low speed moped (same place on the road as a bike, max 25kph outside, 20 inside cities, requires driving licence and insurance) or moped (helmet, required to go in the car lanes in cities, max 45 kph, requires driving licence and insurance). A rental company came by my office a while back to promote people into buying one. They completely ignored the obvious safety concerns people had as it is far les easy to stay up with smaller wheels but still compared it to biking. We will see where this is going but I would not go fast on one without proper body protection especially if they go > 20 kph.

Freak_NL 7y ago
> In the Netherlands those scooters are allowed on the pavement if their max speed is 5kph but this is a grey area if the law. Wrong. The law is quite clear on this. They are not allowed on public roads, unless they are RDW-approved. Those that are approved (like the Segway) are considered mopeds, require a moped-licence and the minimum age of 16, and are consequently forbidden from using the pavement. Cf.: https://www.vraaghetdepolitie.nl/verkeer/overig-verkeer/mag-ik-met-mijn-elektrische-step-buiten-rijden.html https://www.vraaghetdepolitie.nl/verkeer/overig-verkeer/mag-...

anonymou2 7y ago

No way, that's a lie been repeated for the last 60 years to get rid of bicycles and leave the roads only for motorists. Cyclists have the same right to use the public roads as motorists, no more but certainly no less. Some of us, cyclists, are actively fighting against the cyclist apartheid.

thecatspaw 7y ago
I dont think the intention is to get rid of bycicles on the streets, rather to seperate them into their own lanes, to increase safety. By fighting against the 'cyclist apartheid' you are fighting against your own safety.
- anonymou2 7y ago
  Quite the opposite, it is more dangerous to ride in a segregated manner because it contradicts the basic principles of traffic which exist so that vehicles of all types can safely share the road. For example there is a basic principle that says that when you reach an intersection you position yourself according to your destination, right if you are going to turn right and so on. Bike lanes that force vehicles not using it to turn right from the adjacent lane contradict this rule and increase the chances of right hook type of accident. The people who build these things completely ignore that bicycles are vehicles, they only build them for the convenience of motorists not for our safety.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    I think you are confusing the poor excuse of bike lanes in the USA with the much better dedicated biking paths in the Netherlands. The latter don’t have the problems you mentioned.
isostatic 7y ago
I read it as "we should get rid of cars and use the space they currently occupy"