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Insane how negative even this community is about this tech. Is coming regardless of regulation because whos going to tell tesla No once they add in lights and s

Insane how negative even this community is about this tech. Is coming regardless of regulation because whos going to tell tesla No once they add in lights and stop sign detection but still. Actually, don't they already do those things in beta for some users?

BoorishBears 7y ago
I've said it before. I'm negative because Tesla has a track record of killing people willingly. AP1's entire sensor suite was in other cars at the same time it was in Teslas. Other companies rightfully used those sensors for Lane Keep Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control and Automatic Emergency Braking. Lane Keep Assist does EXACTLY what it says on the tin. It ASSISTS in keeping a lane. It will not automatically center in a lane. It will not let you let go of the wheel. It WILL save you in 99% of situations where one may naturally be distracted, like drowsy driving. Adaptive Cruise Control, does EXACTLY what it says on the tin. It is cruise control... that adapts to traffic conditions. It will not stop the car by itself. It will not lull you into a false sense of safety by trying to claim it detects stopped objects. It will not give you the confidence to stare at your phone in traffic. Automatic Emergency Braking, does EXACTLY what it says on the tin. It's a backup that will only activate in a real emergency. It will precharge the brakes opportunistically, but it won't activate until the last moment possible. It instead alerts the driver BEFORE action is taken. AEB from Mobileye alerted me to an overturned box truck on an interstate in pitch darkness and heavy rain before I could visually confirm it. - Now you'll notice if you just take these building blocks, and increase how often they engage to continuous, you can lie and say you have a rudimentary self-driving car. I say lie because this level of autonomy is not what people have in mind when they say "self-driving car" And of course no one would do that. And certainly no one would do that and then call it AUTOPILOT. Except Tesla did. And people died. And they're still keeping up the charade. And that's (part) of why I went from a Tesla fanboy to a staunch hater of Tesla and what they represent.
- _Microft 7y ago
  If a driver uses a system based on information from advertisements instead of reading the manual that comes with it, they might not be suited to drive any car either because using a safety-critical system without knowing what its limitations are is reckless and irresponsible.
  - romwell 7y ago
    >If a driver uses a system based on information from advertisements They would be just like all the consumers who expect that misleading advertisement is illegal. Nobody is reading the small print, especially on the "accept this long text to use your thing" kind. Not you, not me, not anyone, really; and everyone knows it, including the courts. In fact, for that reason EULAs aren't even enforceable in all legislatures (like Germany, IIRC). And putting critical information into the small print that you have to accept just to use the device is plain sleazy.
    - _Microft 7y ago
      If there is a ruling that actually exonerated a driver from their duty to be familiar with functions of their car based on prior knowledge of (misleading?) advertisements, then I'd really like to see it. It would be surprising at least.
      - BoorishBears 7y ago
        It'd be surprising that you're not expected to somehow reverse engineer your car to find out how the features really work? Is that a joke? You think lay people are supposed take apart their Teslas and find out that AP1 was using radar and research that to find out that can't be used to detect static objects because of confusion with things like overhead signs? What's next, you'll be expected to reverse engineer ML models to find out your self-driving car doesn't recognize red bicycles at sunset?
        _Microft 7y ago
        [T]o be familiar with functions of their car means that they should have had a look into the manual. Edit: You might wanna read the comment guidelines by the way. Snarky comments are actually discouraged in favour of more thoughtful and substantive ones -> https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
billions 7y ago
HN's demographics is extremely risk-adverse. They cannot fathom calculating risk-reward ratios.
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  Ah yes, the famously low-risk/low-reward environment of a tech startup...
  - tomhoward 7y ago
    Startup folk don't seem to be a dominant presence on HN these days. More people here seem to be employees in medium-large companies, and many are not in tech at all. It's probably mostly that the HN audience has grown a lot since the early "Startup News" days, whilst startup founders/employees haven’t grown by the same numbers, so much of the growth has come from other quarters.
    - billions 7y ago
      This. Running a startup forces you to see risk/reward in a manner you can’t unsee.
imtringued 7y ago
It's 2019. Adding lights and stop sign detection means they are almost half a decade behind their competitors.

BoorishBears 7y ago

I've said it before. I'm negative because Tesla has a track record of killing people willingly. AP1's entire sensor suite was in other cars at the same time it was in Teslas. Other companies rightfully used those sensors for Lane Keep Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control and Automatic Emergency Braking. Lane Keep Assist does EXACTLY what it says on the tin. It ASSISTS in keeping a lane. It will not automatically center in a lane. It will not let you let go of the wheel. It WILL save you in 99% of situations where one may naturally be distracted, like drowsy driving. Adaptive Cruise Control, does EXACTLY what it says on the tin. It is cruise control... that adapts to traffic conditions. It will not stop the car by itself. It will not lull you into a false sense of safety by trying to claim it detects stopped objects. It will not give you the confidence to stare at your phone in traffic. Automatic Emergency Braking, does EXACTLY what it says on the tin. It's a backup that will only activate in a real emergency. It will precharge the brakes opportunistically, but it won't activate until the last moment possible. It instead alerts the driver BEFORE action is taken. AEB from Mobileye alerted me to an overturned box truck on an interstate in pitch darkness and heavy rain before I could visually confirm it. - Now you'll notice if you just take these building blocks, and increase how often they engage to continuous, you can lie and say you have a rudimentary self-driving car. I say lie because this level of autonomy is not what people have in mind when they say "self-driving car" And of course no one would do that. And certainly no one would do that and then call it AUTOPILOT. Except Tesla did. And people died. And they're still keeping up the charade. And that's (part) of why I went from a Tesla fanboy to a staunch hater of Tesla and what they represent.

_Microft 7y ago
If a driver uses a system based on information from advertisements instead of reading the manual that comes with it, they might not be suited to drive any car either because using a safety-critical system without knowing what its limitations are is reckless and irresponsible.
- romwell 7y ago
  >If a driver uses a system based on information from advertisements They would be just like all the consumers who expect that misleading advertisement is illegal. Nobody is reading the small print, especially on the "accept this long text to use your thing" kind. Not you, not me, not anyone, really; and everyone knows it, including the courts. In fact, for that reason EULAs aren't even enforceable in all legislatures (like Germany, IIRC). And putting critical information into the small print that you have to accept just to use the device is plain sleazy.
  - _Microft 7y ago
    If there is a ruling that actually exonerated a driver from their duty to be familiar with functions of their car based on prior knowledge of (misleading?) advertisements, then I'd really like to see it. It would be surprising at least.
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      It'd be surprising that you're not expected to somehow reverse engineer your car to find out how the features really work? Is that a joke? You think lay people are supposed take apart their Teslas and find out that AP1 was using radar and research that to find out that can't be used to detect static objects because of confusion with things like overhead signs? What's next, you'll be expected to reverse engineer ML models to find out your self-driving car doesn't recognize red bicycles at sunset?
      - _Microft 7y ago
        [T]o be familiar with functions of their car means that they should have had a look into the manual. Edit: You might wanna read the comment guidelines by the way. Snarky comments are actually discouraged in favour of more thoughtful and substantive ones -> https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

billions 7y ago

HN's demographics is extremely risk-adverse. They cannot fathom calculating risk-reward ratios.

ForHackernews 7y ago
Ah yes, the famously low-risk/low-reward environment of a tech startup...
- tomhoward 7y ago
  Startup folk don't seem to be a dominant presence on HN these days. More people here seem to be employees in medium-large companies, and many are not in tech at all. It's probably mostly that the HN audience has grown a lot since the early "Startup News" days, whilst startup founders/employees haven’t grown by the same numbers, so much of the growth has come from other quarters.
  - billions 7y ago
    This. Running a startup forces you to see risk/reward in a manner you can’t unsee.

imtringued 7y ago

It's 2019. Adding lights and stop sign detection means they are almost half a decade behind their competitors.