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Pre-rigging? I’ve worked my ass off for nearly 30 years, as has my wife. We are both smart and very hard working and it paid off. My roots are middle class at

Pre-rigging? I’ve worked my ass off for nearly 30 years, as has my wife. We are both smart and very hard working and it paid off. My roots are middle class at best. My parents are immigrants and were extremely poor as children but they also worked hard and went from poverty to middle class. I’m teaching my children to work hard and be good people and contribute to this world. How pray tell am I benefiting from “pre-rigging”? I’ve made solid decisions throughout my life and sacrificed to be where I am today. Now I’m being told that my children will be at a disadvantage for college because my wife and I worked hard our entire careers and succeeded. That’s hogwash. Absolute hogwash and I’m furious.

ryanobjc 7y ago
So, some kids from crappy schools and neighborhoods will get into college, when they might not otherwise, presumably taking the place of you/your children, who have “made solid decisions” and “worked my ass off for 30 years” who deserve it more? Because you/they worked harder? Ok. Cool. Just want to make sure I understand.
- remote_phone 7y ago
  People who work hard deserve the fruits of their labor, regardless of their economic status. I have no problems with economically disadvantaged hard working people getting into great colleges, I have problems with equally hardworking people being disadvantaged because their parents are successful.
  - ryanobjc 7y ago
    Wouldn’t you agree that two people who achieve the same score on the test may not have worked equally hard? If someone scored the same as your child, except they didn’t have good security, good quality schools, parents that could help them, etc, I would say that they in fact worked much harder than your children. And by the logic of “those who worked harder deserve it more”, well I think you see where this is going. If anything this adversity score IS making things more fair because it’s providing light to the extra challenges someone might have had and thus who indeed worked harder at it.
    - p1esk 7y ago
      We don’t know if they worked harder or not. It’s almost impossible to determine if the reason for any particular success is good teachers, hard work, or genetics.
    - snaggletooth 7y ago
      If this score was unrealistically perfect and able to accurately account for every possible detail, maybe. If instead it just does a cheap job of assuming anyone with a certain set of data points is at a major disadvantage, nope. The test claims to be measuring a students ability to learn in the first place, not just their current knowledge, so why not aim to make that more accurate instead of bypassing it?
      - ryanobjc 7y ago
        So let me get this correct... The subject area is the SAT, a test, which is imperfect like all tests, with research which indicates that it's actually problematic for such a diverse country like the USA. So a test like the SAT, which boils down to a single number. Yes that's the subject. And now they're making the results 2 numbers. The test and some, well known summary of information about the student. And THIS, THIS is the bridge too far? Honestly, do you even hear yourself? What should a third party think about your words? Perhaps you could help me and provide a back story of how you've been in opposition to the SAT for a long time, and how this just reinforces a flawed test. But nope, it sure does seem like you're focusing in on how this test might provide opportunities to black and brown people. But I'm sure that's not that, because it's hackernews, and we are so polite to each other and reasonable. So, tell me again why the SAT is good, but SAT + adversity score is bad?
    - pathseeker 7y ago
      Growing up in a zip code is not a challenge. This "adversity score" doesn't measure adversity.
  - actsof 7y ago
    But the richer children are inherently privileged, yet you think providing privilege to poorer children is immoral. Why is one acceptable but the other is not?
jachee 7y ago
The system is pre-rigged against: • People of color • LGBTQ • Lower-than-upper-middle-class • Divorced and/or single-parent homes • Rural families You talk about the decisions you made. The fact that you even had a choice is a privilege denied to many. For each of the above that you didn't have to overcome, that's a way the system is rigged in your favor. Your children won't be disadvantaged in any way, and you're free to spend your resources to ensure their maximum opportunity. Take a break from your "I gotta get mine before anyone else gets any!" attitude, and walk a mile in my shoes.
- pathseeker 7y ago
  Did you even read the comment? Child of immigrant barely in middle class is not privilege.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    There are different dimensions to privilege. For example even the worst-off class born in the US still has some advantages from being a US citizen.
  - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
    Immigrant children are very privileged to have parents who managed to lift their asses and move to another country in search of a better life. Parents who care is the single greatest privilege a child may get.
- torgian 7y ago
  I can’t agree with this sentiment of yours. While I agree that people that had less than ideal childhoods should be given more opportunities to succeed, it shouldn’t be at the expense of those who worked their ass off for their kids, only to see their hard work taken away by government laws. My own parents and grandparents came from shitty roots. Russia, concentration camp, Brazil, then to the US. My parents worked hard and I had better opportunities because of that. What if government took that reward away from them? Well, surprise surprise, it did (just in another country in another era). _you_ have a choice too: either to take the hand that’s dealt you and move forward, or complain about how others had it better because of their parents, or their own actions. I’ve had a lot of ups and downs in my life due to circumstances as well as choices I made. I don’t blame other people for what happened to me (but I will blame government services being complete shit, especially towards veterans). This isn’t a perfect world, so don’t complain what others get that you don’t have. Work towards making the world better instead, without destroying what others have worked hard for in the meantime.
okaram 7y ago
They will NOT be at a disadvantage for college; they will still be at an advantage, because of all the opportunities you have given them. They may be at a slightly smaller advantage than now; is that terrible?
strikelaserclaw 7y ago
Again, i think this is more like the inner city kid who gets a 700 on the SAT math section vs a privileged kid who gets an 800. They aren't letting in talent less hacks just cause they are poor.

ryanobjc 7y ago

So, some kids from crappy schools and neighborhoods will get into college, when they might not otherwise, presumably taking the place of you/your children, who have “made solid decisions” and “worked my ass off for 30 years” who deserve it more? Because you/they worked harder? Ok. Cool. Just want to make sure I understand.

remote_phone 7y ago
People who work hard deserve the fruits of their labor, regardless of their economic status. I have no problems with economically disadvantaged hard working people getting into great colleges, I have problems with equally hardworking people being disadvantaged because their parents are successful.
- ryanobjc 7y ago
  Wouldn’t you agree that two people who achieve the same score on the test may not have worked equally hard? If someone scored the same as your child, except they didn’t have good security, good quality schools, parents that could help them, etc, I would say that they in fact worked much harder than your children. And by the logic of “those who worked harder deserve it more”, well I think you see where this is going. If anything this adversity score IS making things more fair because it’s providing light to the extra challenges someone might have had and thus who indeed worked harder at it.
  - p1esk 7y ago
    We don’t know if they worked harder or not. It’s almost impossible to determine if the reason for any particular success is good teachers, hard work, or genetics.
  - snaggletooth 7y ago
    If this score was unrealistically perfect and able to accurately account for every possible detail, maybe. If instead it just does a cheap job of assuming anyone with a certain set of data points is at a major disadvantage, nope. The test claims to be measuring a students ability to learn in the first place, not just their current knowledge, so why not aim to make that more accurate instead of bypassing it?
    - ryanobjc 7y ago
      So let me get this correct... The subject area is the SAT, a test, which is imperfect like all tests, with research which indicates that it's actually problematic for such a diverse country like the USA. So a test like the SAT, which boils down to a single number. Yes that's the subject. And now they're making the results 2 numbers. The test and some, well known summary of information about the student. And THIS, THIS is the bridge too far? Honestly, do you even hear yourself? What should a third party think about your words? Perhaps you could help me and provide a back story of how you've been in opposition to the SAT for a long time, and how this just reinforces a flawed test. But nope, it sure does seem like you're focusing in on how this test might provide opportunities to black and brown people. But I'm sure that's not that, because it's hackernews, and we are so polite to each other and reasonable. So, tell me again why the SAT is good, but SAT + adversity score is bad?
  - pathseeker 7y ago
    Growing up in a zip code is not a challenge. This "adversity score" doesn't measure adversity.
- actsof 7y ago
  But the richer children are inherently privileged, yet you think providing privilege to poorer children is immoral. Why is one acceptable but the other is not?

jachee 7y ago

The system is pre-rigged against: • People of color • LGBTQ • Lower-than-upper-middle-class • Divorced and/or single-parent homes • Rural families You talk about the decisions you made. The fact that you even had a choice is a privilege denied to many. For each of the above that you didn't have to overcome, that's a way the system is rigged in your favor. Your children won't be disadvantaged in any way, and you're free to spend your resources to ensure their maximum opportunity. Take a break from your "I gotta get mine before anyone else gets any!" attitude, and walk a mile in my shoes.

pathseeker 7y ago
Did you even read the comment? Child of immigrant barely in middle class is not privilege.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  There are different dimensions to privilege. For example even the worst-off class born in the US still has some advantages from being a US citizen.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
  Immigrant children are very privileged to have parents who managed to lift their asses and move to another country in search of a better life. Parents who care is the single greatest privilege a child may get.
torgian 7y ago
I can’t agree with this sentiment of yours. While I agree that people that had less than ideal childhoods should be given more opportunities to succeed, it shouldn’t be at the expense of those who worked their ass off for their kids, only to see their hard work taken away by government laws. My own parents and grandparents came from shitty roots. Russia, concentration camp, Brazil, then to the US. My parents worked hard and I had better opportunities because of that. What if government took that reward away from them? Well, surprise surprise, it did (just in another country in another era). _you_ have a choice too: either to take the hand that’s dealt you and move forward, or complain about how others had it better because of their parents, or their own actions. I’ve had a lot of ups and downs in my life due to circumstances as well as choices I made. I don’t blame other people for what happened to me (but I will blame government services being complete shit, especially towards veterans). This isn’t a perfect world, so don’t complain what others get that you don’t have. Work towards making the world better instead, without destroying what others have worked hard for in the meantime.

okaram 7y ago

They will NOT be at a disadvantage for college; they will still be at an advantage, because of all the opportunities you have given them. They may be at a slightly smaller advantage than now; is that terrible?

strikelaserclaw 7y ago

Again, i think this is more like the inner city kid who gets a 700 on the SAT math section vs a privileged kid who gets an 800. They aren't letting in talent less hacks just cause they are poor.