4 ms·

While I'm sure they're considerably better than processed foods, I wonder how the whole fruits, grains, and vegetables that have been selectively bred, or genet

by goda90 7y ago

While I'm sure they're considerably better than processed foods, I wonder how the whole fruits, grains, and vegetables that have been selectively bred, or genetically modified to be all about tastiness(or growth speed, shelf life, etc) would stack up against other strains. All tomatoes can't possibly be equal, so it'd be interesting to see studies like this, but comparing a roma tomato, vs heirloom or something.

devoply 7y ago
I have also been wondering how this revolution of ethical imitation meat products is going to play with processed foods... as these are also quite processed foods. ingredient list from a mock salami product: water, vital wheat gluten, isolated soy protein, tofu (water, soybeans), spices, natural flavors (including autolyzed yeast extract), salt, wheat starch, garlic and onion powder, evaporated cane juice, vitamins & minerals (dipotassium phosphate, dimagnesium phosphate, zinc oxide, ferric orthophosphate, calcium panthothenate, thiamin hydrochloride, cyanocobalamin, iron oxide), carrageenan, beet powder and extractive of paprika (for color).
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  You can make seitan from scratch. I start with vital wheat gluten (and chickpea flour and nutritional yeast), which is technically a processed product. But you could start with flour if you wanted to. The end result is a product with 3 or 4 simple ingredients, compared to that fairly large list of unknowns.
  - dao- 7y ago
    I think this is missing the point. Yes you can make seitan from scratch, but it's not necessarily going to be better since seitan with its main ingredient being gluten contains little fiber either way. On the other hand, chickpea flour may be processed, but if the process preserves the fiber, that's not really a problem. The lack of fiber in /most/ processed foods makes you eat more of these.
cwkoss 7y ago
Vegetables have been getting larger, but nutritional density is decreasing. I think I read vegetables are something like 20% less nutritionally dense than 50 years ago.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  From what I have read they are selected for looks, taste and ease of storage and transportation. There is no consideration for nutritional value.
  - corysama 7y ago
    Consumers don't have tricorders to scan two tomatoes and compare their relative nutrition. Meanwhile, they are extremely sensitive to price and appearance differences in their groceries. It's a bad situation for everybody. But, selecting for nutrition over appearance would go almost completely unnoticed by anyone except for how it made the accountants and shareholders sad. I can dream about a marketing campaign focused on nutritional value. But, in the end, I expect consumers would brush it off as BS and buy up all the cheap, pretty, non-local, out-of-season produce anyway :/
- edejong 7y ago
  This is one source corroborating your claim: https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/nutrient-density-of-crops-over-time/ https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/nutrient-densi... But it's good to read that whole article, because in general the availability of fruits have gone up as well.
JoeAltmaier 7y ago
That's pretty much 'all food'. We've been cross-breeding and selecting fruits, grains, vegetables for thousands of years. None resemble what we started with. Corn was originally a small head of kernels like wheat. Melons were the size of oranges or tennis balls, with maybe 2-3 tablespoons of edible flesh. Vegetables were stingy small things packed with seeds and thin skins. So the 'paleo diet' is really nothing close to what ancient ancestors ate. In fact, we'd likely not do well on that even if we could find those things? We've adapted more in the last 50,000 years (to cooked, selected foods) than in millions before that. We've probably dug ourselves a hole, inventing agriculture and animal husbandry. It feeds more of us, but with a much narrower set of foods. Maybe some genetic engineering would put us back on a good path.
- stcredzero 7y ago
  We've been cross-breeding and selecting fruits, grains, vegetables for thousands of years. None resemble what we started with...Vegetables were stingy small things packed with seeds and thin skins. I can attest. Wild carrots are disturbingly close to sticks. (Also, they are disturbingly close in appearance to some significantly poisonous plants.)

by goda90 7y ago

devoply 7y ago

I have also been wondering how this revolution of ethical imitation meat products is going to play with processed foods... as these are also quite processed foods. ingredient list from a mock salami product: water, vital wheat gluten, isolated soy protein, tofu (water, soybeans), spices, natural flavors (including autolyzed yeast extract), salt, wheat starch, garlic and onion powder, evaporated cane juice, vitamins & minerals (dipotassium phosphate, dimagnesium phosphate, zinc oxide, ferric orthophosphate, calcium panthothenate, thiamin hydrochloride, cyanocobalamin, iron oxide), carrageenan, beet powder and extractive of paprika (for color).

jniedrauer 7y ago
You can make seitan from scratch. I start with vital wheat gluten (and chickpea flour and nutritional yeast), which is technically a processed product. But you could start with flour if you wanted to. The end result is a product with 3 or 4 simple ingredients, compared to that fairly large list of unknowns.
- dao- 7y ago
  I think this is missing the point. Yes you can make seitan from scratch, but it's not necessarily going to be better since seitan with its main ingredient being gluten contains little fiber either way. On the other hand, chickpea flour may be processed, but if the process preserves the fiber, that's not really a problem. The lack of fiber in /most/ processed foods makes you eat more of these.

cwkoss 7y ago

Vegetables have been getting larger, but nutritional density is decreasing. I think I read vegetables are something like 20% less nutritionally dense than 50 years ago.

maxxxxx 7y ago
From what I have read they are selected for looks, taste and ease of storage and transportation. There is no consideration for nutritional value.
- corysama 7y ago
  Consumers don't have tricorders to scan two tomatoes and compare their relative nutrition. Meanwhile, they are extremely sensitive to price and appearance differences in their groceries. It's a bad situation for everybody. But, selecting for nutrition over appearance would go almost completely unnoticed by anyone except for how it made the accountants and shareholders sad. I can dream about a marketing campaign focused on nutritional value. But, in the end, I expect consumers would brush it off as BS and buy up all the cheap, pretty, non-local, out-of-season produce anyway :/
edejong 7y ago
This is one source corroborating your claim: https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/nutrient-density-of-crops-over-time/ https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/nutrient-densi... But it's good to read that whole article, because in general the availability of fruits have gone up as well.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago

That's pretty much 'all food'. We've been cross-breeding and selecting fruits, grains, vegetables for thousands of years. None resemble what we started with. Corn was originally a small head of kernels like wheat. Melons were the size of oranges or tennis balls, with maybe 2-3 tablespoons of edible flesh. Vegetables were stingy small things packed with seeds and thin skins. So the 'paleo diet' is really nothing close to what ancient ancestors ate. In fact, we'd likely not do well on that even if we could find those things? We've adapted more in the last 50,000 years (to cooked, selected foods) than in millions before that. We've probably dug ourselves a hole, inventing agriculture and animal husbandry. It feeds more of us, but with a much narrower set of foods. Maybe some genetic engineering would put us back on a good path.

stcredzero 7y ago
We've been cross-breeding and selecting fruits, grains, vegetables for thousands of years. None resemble what we started with...Vegetables were stingy small things packed with seeds and thin skins. I can attest. Wild carrots are disturbingly close to sticks. (Also, they are disturbingly close in appearance to some significantly poisonous plants.)