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They removed the FAQ as it didn't fit they newer site. You can find it at the old site version: https://prev.rust-lang.org/en-US/faq.html https://prev.rust-lan

They removed the FAQ as it didn't fit they newer site. You can find it at the old site version: https://prev.rust-lang.org/en-US/faq.html https://prev.rust-lang.org/en-US/faq.html

kekebo 7y ago
Design choices shouldn't be a reason to not include the FAQ
- xondono 7y ago
  It is if you are standardizing documentation. I don’t expect FAQs in the main website. https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/complement-lang-faq.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/complement-lang-faq.html
  - kekebo 7y ago
    Given that a lot of these questions seem relevant for people considering to try rust for the first time, including some sort of link on the main website might be helpful.
  - roblabla 7y ago
    A redirect would be helpful so the old links still work.
    - steveklabnik 7y ago
      We generally tried to have redirects, but we are humans and therefore fallible. Please file bugs!
      - roblabla 7y ago
        I would, but then the linked FAQ is outdated (in fact, the 1.20 version[0] indicates it moved to the website), and I don't think having a redirect that points to the prev website would work. According to [1], the presence of an FAQ on the website is an unresolved question. [0]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.20.0/complement-lang-faq.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.20.0/complement-lang-faq.html [1]: https://github.com/rust-lang/www.rust-lang.org/issues/445 https://github.com/rust-lang/www.rust-lang.org/issues/445
        steveklabnik 7y ago
        Ah, I thought you could redirect to prev. Sorry about that!
  - bscphil 7y ago
    Heh. "Currently, Rust is still pre-1.0" doesn't seem to agree with the URL. ;-)
    - steveklabnik 7y ago
      Just another demonstration of how easy it is to let this kind of thing get out of date.
- steveklabnik 7y ago
  Design had nothing to do with not including the FAQ. The FAQ was often out of date, hard to maintain. It was super long. It's not clear how often it was actually used.
  - dmix 7y ago
    Was there a reason why the runnable code example (plus a link to more examples "Rust by Example") that was front & center of the old homepage was removed? I found it difficult to find any code examples on the new site.
    - steveklabnik 7y ago
      There's been a years-long discussion about how to get a good code sample, and we've never found anything satisfactory. Short examples don't show anything interesting, and interesting examples are too long. Nobody was happy with the old code sample, and nobody was happy with all of the suggested alternatives.
      - dmix 7y ago
        golangs multiple options (via dropdown) always seemed the best to me https://golang.org/ https://golang.org/ Nim's line length one is okay https://nim-lang.org/ https://nim-lang.org/ Although I'm sure you guys debated it to death already I still find it unusual to not be able to find a any example of actual within a few clicks. Committee-driven design is always difficult.
        intertextuality 7y ago
        Go's page is for programmers; Rust's new page is for non-programmers. I think it's a mistake that you have to click "Get Started", then read through installation instructions, to finally see what Rust code looks like. It's all backwards. A short snippet (or two) should be front and center. Crystal lang is another very good example: https://crystal-lang.org/ https://crystal-lang.org/.
      - 7y ago
nullwasamistake 7y ago
That... Seems bad. Sorry to jab but is optics also why they decided on confusing non-standard async syntax? I always thought that for open source software, the more terrible the website the better it was. A site too slick may ruin Rust's reputation
- lllr_finger 7y ago
  People that appreciate Rust's features can and do also appreciate a nice site - they're not mutually exclusive. There is no such thing as "standard" async syntax unfortunately. The Rust language team is trying to find the optimal blend of ergonomics and consistency when there isn't a clear winner. It feels like pointless bike shedding to many, but a decision like how to handle strings has bifurcated the Python community for years.
  - intertextuality 7y ago
    This implies the old site wasn't nice. Which is not true. The old site isn't as pretty as the new one for sure, but it wasn't a bad site. It was straightforward. Personally I don't like that the new website doesn't even display rust's syntax (what it looks like) on the homepage anymore.
    - krick 7y ago
      > The old site isn't as pretty Wasn't it? It was clear, clean, had nice typography, didn't cause epileptic seizures when you scroll it. That's a way more than I can say about the new one.
intertextuality 7y ago
I'm confused as to why they redesigned the website but removed prior functionality. A few weeks ago people pointed out that the internationalization also suffered due to this. Edit: by suffered, I mean "was removed entirely". I just checked and couldn't find a way to change the locale, nor could I manually set it e.g. by appending /de-DE, etc. If the new design requires a link to the old design to access removed functionality, is it really ready to launch? --- edit; these were the languages offered: Deutsch, English, Español, Français, Bahasa Indonesia, Italiano, 日本語, 한국어, Polski, Português, Русский, Svenska, Tiếng việt, 简体中文 Now if I want to refer to someone about Rust in Korean I have to link to prev.rust-lang.org, which is weird.
- asdkhadsj 7y ago
  Does the new design require a link to the old design? By your opinion sure, but they don't think that do they? Which is to say, if you own a site and decide to cut a feature, isn't that okay? It may or may not be a feature users want.. but that's another story entirely, no?
  - intertextuality 7y ago
    The new site has a link to the old one at the bottom. My opinion isn't factoring into it. However, losing i18n is pretty bad. These are the old languages that were offered: > Deutsch, English, Español, Français, Bahasa Indonesia, Italiano, 日本語, 한국어, Polski, Português, Русский, Svenska, Tiếng việt, 简体中文 However, as someone who regularly studies and works with a non-English language I can tell you i18n is pretty darn important. More important than a very pretty site that people can't read. Per my own opinion, a FAQ is also a great idea. Especially for a new language that's trying to gain more adoption. Entirely removing it instead of reworking it into the new design before deploying mystifies me.
    - steveklabnik 7y ago
      Nobody was happy with losing i18n, and it's on its way back, there were just some delays.
KenanSulayman 7y ago
I miss the old site :( It's so simple and beautiful..
krick 7y ago
Your nickname perfectly fits my opinion on the newer site, BTW.

They removed the FAQ as it didn't fit they newer site. You can find it at the old site version: https://prev.rust-lang.org/en-US/faq.html https://prev.rust-lang.org/en-US/faq.html

kekebo 7y ago

Design choices shouldn't be a reason to not include the FAQ

xondono 7y ago
It is if you are standardizing documentation. I don’t expect FAQs in the main website. https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/complement-lang-faq.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/complement-lang-faq.html
- kekebo 7y ago
  Given that a lot of these questions seem relevant for people considering to try rust for the first time, including some sort of link on the main website might be helpful.
- roblabla 7y ago
  A redirect would be helpful so the old links still work.
  - steveklabnik 7y ago
    We generally tried to have redirects, but we are humans and therefore fallible. Please file bugs!
    - roblabla 7y ago
      I would, but then the linked FAQ is outdated (in fact, the 1.20 version[0] indicates it moved to the website), and I don't think having a redirect that points to the prev website would work. According to [1], the presence of an FAQ on the website is an unresolved question. [0]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.20.0/complement-lang-faq.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.20.0/complement-lang-faq.html [1]: https://github.com/rust-lang/www.rust-lang.org/issues/445 https://github.com/rust-lang/www.rust-lang.org/issues/445
      - steveklabnik 7y ago
        Ah, I thought you could redirect to prev. Sorry about that!
- bscphil 7y ago
  Heh. "Currently, Rust is still pre-1.0" doesn't seem to agree with the URL. ;-)
  - steveklabnik 7y ago
    Just another demonstration of how easy it is to let this kind of thing get out of date.
steveklabnik 7y ago
Design had nothing to do with not including the FAQ. The FAQ was often out of date, hard to maintain. It was super long. It's not clear how often it was actually used.
- dmix 7y ago
  Was there a reason why the runnable code example (plus a link to more examples "Rust by Example") that was front & center of the old homepage was removed? I found it difficult to find any code examples on the new site.
  - steveklabnik 7y ago
    There's been a years-long discussion about how to get a good code sample, and we've never found anything satisfactory. Short examples don't show anything interesting, and interesting examples are too long. Nobody was happy with the old code sample, and nobody was happy with all of the suggested alternatives.
    - dmix 7y ago
      golangs multiple options (via dropdown) always seemed the best to me https://golang.org/ https://golang.org/ Nim's line length one is okay https://nim-lang.org/ https://nim-lang.org/ Although I'm sure you guys debated it to death already I still find it unusual to not be able to find a any example of actual within a few clicks. Committee-driven design is always difficult.
      - intertextuality 7y ago
        Go's page is for programmers; Rust's new page is for non-programmers. I think it's a mistake that you have to click "Get Started", then read through installation instructions, to finally see what Rust code looks like. It's all backwards. A short snippet (or two) should be front and center. Crystal lang is another very good example: https://crystal-lang.org/ https://crystal-lang.org/.
    - 7y ago

nullwasamistake 7y ago

That... Seems bad. Sorry to jab but is optics also why they decided on confusing non-standard async syntax? I always thought that for open source software, the more terrible the website the better it was. A site too slick may ruin Rust's reputation

lllr_finger 7y ago
People that appreciate Rust's features can and do also appreciate a nice site - they're not mutually exclusive. There is no such thing as "standard" async syntax unfortunately. The Rust language team is trying to find the optimal blend of ergonomics and consistency when there isn't a clear winner. It feels like pointless bike shedding to many, but a decision like how to handle strings has bifurcated the Python community for years.
- intertextuality 7y ago
  This implies the old site wasn't nice. Which is not true. The old site isn't as pretty as the new one for sure, but it wasn't a bad site. It was straightforward. Personally I don't like that the new website doesn't even display rust's syntax (what it looks like) on the homepage anymore.
  - krick 7y ago
    > The old site isn't as pretty Wasn't it? It was clear, clean, had nice typography, didn't cause epileptic seizures when you scroll it. That's a way more than I can say about the new one.

intertextuality 7y ago

I'm confused as to why they redesigned the website but removed prior functionality. A few weeks ago people pointed out that the internationalization also suffered due to this. Edit: by suffered, I mean "was removed entirely". I just checked and couldn't find a way to change the locale, nor could I manually set it e.g. by appending /de-DE, etc. If the new design requires a link to the old design to access removed functionality, is it really ready to launch? --- edit; these were the languages offered: Deutsch, English, Español, Français, Bahasa Indonesia, Italiano, 日本語, 한국어, Polski, Português, Русский, Svenska, Tiếng việt, 简体中文 Now if I want to refer to someone about Rust in Korean I have to link to prev.rust-lang.org, which is weird.

asdkhadsj 7y ago
Does the new design require a link to the old design? By your opinion sure, but they don't think that do they? Which is to say, if you own a site and decide to cut a feature, isn't that okay? It may or may not be a feature users want.. but that's another story entirely, no?
- intertextuality 7y ago
  The new site has a link to the old one at the bottom. My opinion isn't factoring into it. However, losing i18n is pretty bad. These are the old languages that were offered: > Deutsch, English, Español, Français, Bahasa Indonesia, Italiano, 日本語, 한국어, Polski, Português, Русский, Svenska, Tiếng việt, 简体中文 However, as someone who regularly studies and works with a non-English language I can tell you i18n is pretty darn important. More important than a very pretty site that people can't read. Per my own opinion, a FAQ is also a great idea. Especially for a new language that's trying to gain more adoption. Entirely removing it instead of reworking it into the new design before deploying mystifies me.
  - steveklabnik 7y ago
    Nobody was happy with losing i18n, and it's on its way back, there were just some delays.

KenanSulayman 7y ago

I miss the old site :( It's so simple and beautiful..

krick 7y ago

Your nickname perfectly fits my opinion on the newer site, BTW.