4 ms·

Yeah indeed. I wonder why more rich Americans don’t feel shame and embarrassment at such purchases.

throwaway55554 7y ago
They do. Then they go shopping to make themselves feel better.
bitexploder 7y ago
There are studies that show being wealthy somehow decreases empathy.any people just stop noticing. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/?redirect=1 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduce...
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  The studies do not show that. >In order to figure out whether selfishness leads to wealth (rather than vice versa), Piff and his colleagues ran a study where they manipulated people’s class feelings. The researchers asked participants to spend a few minutes comparing themselves either to people better off or worse off than themselves financially. Afterwards, participants were shown a jar of candy and told that they could take home as much as they wanted. They were also told that the leftover candy would be given to children in a nearby laboratory. Those participants who had spent time thinking about how much better off they were compared to others ended up taking significantly more candy for themselves--leaving less behind for the children. Trying to take a single minor difference in behavior in a controlled setting and apply it to an entire demographic is bad psychology. Imagine someone doing this with a demographic distinction other than SES.
EliRivers 7y ago
I understand that a popular philosophy is that they're rich because they deserve it; they're simply better people. There's no shame to be had; it's simply the natural order of things, it's morally right.
- Konnstann 7y ago
  While I agree with the absurdity of rich people being "better" than the less wealthy, what makes someone "deserve" to be rich? I would argue that no one deserves to be poor, but whether or not it is morally correct to buy nice things doesn't sound to me like a debate worth having. At what point does someone need to be ashamed of the money they make? Is anything over the $50k figure that is quoted as the maximum happiness per dollar figure considered shameful?
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    I don't think it's a matter of shame, but it's a matter of realizing that while it may have been hard work, it was also a fair amount of luck that got you to where you got to be, and that a lot of people put in the same amount of work, but due to the fates they don't end up in the same place.
  - EliRivers 7y ago
    What makes someone deserve to be rich, under this philosophy? I understand that's not part of it. Maybe some of them deserve to be rich for being clever, some deserve to be rich for working hard, there are many reasons. The point is that they clearly do deserve it because they are rich.
systemtest 7y ago
Most Americans have smartphones worth about as much as a monthly salary in Europeans countries. Should people feel embarrassment about that?
- JetSpiegel 7y ago
  Most? 50%? I don't think this is correct.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  I think most Americans have phones that are used, and not Apple, and not flagship. Europe is pretty divers so I don't know if you mean Greece ~€1000 or Norway ~€4000 but it still seems like a stretch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_... When I lived in the US I thought more Europeans lived in gorgeous architecture and had excellent public transport. Living in Europe, I find a lot of people think Americans are wealthier than reality (though if they're thinking of tech salaries, they're probably right - that EU/US disparity is enormous).
  - systemtest 7y ago
    There are twelve countries in the European Union with an average net income of less than 1000 euro. The two poorest ones (Romania & Bulgaria) are at 515 euro and 406 euro. So it's not that of a stretch that Americans have phones worth more than a European monthly wage.
    - vonmoltke 7y ago
      It is a stretch to say most Americans do, though. Also, your original post needs a qualifier on the scope of "European countries".
    - rockinghigh 7y ago
      Many Europeans in wealthier countries also have phones worth over 1000€. Buying iPhones is not exclusive to Americans.
harimau777 7y ago
I agree that a lot of luxury is irresponsible, but at the same time I tend to view it differently depending on the situation: An executive making a luxury purchase is different if their company is successful versus laying off lots of employees. Buying a yacht can be part of an understandable (although expensive) hobby/lifestyle as opposed to something simply wasteful like buying solid gold toilet seats. Building beautiful architecture, commissioning art, or adventuring/exploring (e.g. being the first person to climb X or to cross Y) can contribute to the vibrancy of society even if it isn't super practical.
c0vfefe 7y ago
Do you also wonder why the entire Western world doesn't give extra penny to global poverty relief? http://www.globalrichlist.com/ http://www.globalrichlist.com/ Perhaps we're all just flawed, self-centered people trying to keep up with what our environment defines as the good life.

They do. Then they go shopping to make themselves feel better.

There are studies that show being wealthy somehow decreases empathy.any people just stop noticing. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/?redirect=1 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduce...

SkyBelow 7y ago
The studies do not show that. >In order to figure out whether selfishness leads to wealth (rather than vice versa), Piff and his colleagues ran a study where they manipulated people’s class feelings. The researchers asked participants to spend a few minutes comparing themselves either to people better off or worse off than themselves financially. Afterwards, participants were shown a jar of candy and told that they could take home as much as they wanted. They were also told that the leftover candy would be given to children in a nearby laboratory. Those participants who had spent time thinking about how much better off they were compared to others ended up taking significantly more candy for themselves--leaving less behind for the children. Trying to take a single minor difference in behavior in a controlled setting and apply it to an entire demographic is bad psychology. Imagine someone doing this with a demographic distinction other than SES.

EliRivers 7y ago

I understand that a popular philosophy is that they're rich because they deserve it; they're simply better people. There's no shame to be had; it's simply the natural order of things, it's morally right.

Konnstann 7y ago
While I agree with the absurdity of rich people being "better" than the less wealthy, what makes someone "deserve" to be rich? I would argue that no one deserves to be poor, but whether or not it is morally correct to buy nice things doesn't sound to me like a debate worth having. At what point does someone need to be ashamed of the money they make? Is anything over the $50k figure that is quoted as the maximum happiness per dollar figure considered shameful?
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  I don't think it's a matter of shame, but it's a matter of realizing that while it may have been hard work, it was also a fair amount of luck that got you to where you got to be, and that a lot of people put in the same amount of work, but due to the fates they don't end up in the same place.
- EliRivers 7y ago
  What makes someone deserve to be rich, under this philosophy? I understand that's not part of it. Maybe some of them deserve to be rich for being clever, some deserve to be rich for working hard, there are many reasons. The point is that they clearly do deserve it because they are rich.

systemtest 7y ago

Most Americans have smartphones worth about as much as a monthly salary in Europeans countries. Should people feel embarrassment about that?

JetSpiegel 7y ago
Most? 50%? I don't think this is correct.
CalRobert 7y ago
I think most Americans have phones that are used, and not Apple, and not flagship. Europe is pretty divers so I don't know if you mean Greece ~€1000 or Norway ~€4000 but it still seems like a stretch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_... When I lived in the US I thought more Europeans lived in gorgeous architecture and had excellent public transport. Living in Europe, I find a lot of people think Americans are wealthier than reality (though if they're thinking of tech salaries, they're probably right - that EU/US disparity is enormous).
- systemtest 7y ago
  There are twelve countries in the European Union with an average net income of less than 1000 euro. The two poorest ones (Romania & Bulgaria) are at 515 euro and 406 euro. So it's not that of a stretch that Americans have phones worth more than a European monthly wage.
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    It is a stretch to say most Americans do, though. Also, your original post needs a qualifier on the scope of "European countries".
  - rockinghigh 7y ago
    Many Europeans in wealthier countries also have phones worth over 1000€. Buying iPhones is not exclusive to Americans.

harimau777 7y ago

I agree that a lot of luxury is irresponsible, but at the same time I tend to view it differently depending on the situation: An executive making a luxury purchase is different if their company is successful versus laying off lots of employees. Buying a yacht can be part of an understandable (although expensive) hobby/lifestyle as opposed to something simply wasteful like buying solid gold toilet seats. Building beautiful architecture, commissioning art, or adventuring/exploring (e.g. being the first person to climb X or to cross Y) can contribute to the vibrancy of society even if it isn't super practical.

c0vfefe 7y ago

Do you also wonder why the entire Western world doesn't give extra penny to global poverty relief? http://www.globalrichlist.com/ http://www.globalrichlist.com/ Perhaps we're all just flawed, self-centered people trying to keep up with what our environment defines as the good life.