7 ms·

The fear mongering against Huawei becomes really interesting when you look at all the "sorry, we forgot about that unintentional access possibility" incidents i

The fear mongering against Huawei becomes really interesting when you look at all the "sorry, we forgot about that unintentional access possibility" incidents in Cisco gear that might either be back doors or lousy QA leading to security problems.

mythrwy 7y ago
All that shows is gee, it really can and really does happen. Which is a stronger argument, not weaker for suspicious treatment of Huawei by Western governments.
mey 7y ago
Watching from afar, the amount of huge holes in Cisco are staggering. I don't really understand IT's love of Cisco, other than that's all they've certed in/invested in/never get fired for IBM mentality. For people in the networking space, what makes you use cisco for firewalls/core routing at this point?
- laurentdc 7y ago
  * abundance of people with Cisco knowledge and certifications, everyone has fiddled with a Cisco CLI at some point in their career * devices on the gray market are very cheap, low barrier to entry for setting up a lab or a SMB infrastructure * the lower end stuff is pretty much set and forget (e.g. we still have 1700 series devices from year 2003 routing calls without a hiccup) * "nobody ever got fired for buying Cisco" company mentality
  - coding123 7y ago
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/11/cisco_sap_failures/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/11/cisco_sap_failures/
- bane 7y ago
  Cisco is the Oracle of networking gear.
Alupis 7y ago
I don't really see the fear mongering or problem here. This executive order would forbid the government from purchasing and installing Telecom/Networking equipment that would be considered to have a higher than acceptable risk. Given that China isn't exactly the most friendly nation to the US, and given Huawei is by nature, an extension of the Chinese Government, it's not unreasonable to assume China might at some point in the future (or already is) use Huawei to conduct electronic espionage against other nations. Just like it wouldn't be unreasonable for China to forbid purchase and use of Cisco equipment within the Chinese government. (We should also not forget or excuse Chinese IP theft which has enabled Huawei to produce competitive products in the first place...)
- petschge 7y ago
  The government deciding to not purchase that equipment for their own use in sensitive networks is one thing. (And this was already in place before this executive order.) Banning corporations from doing that in their own commercial networks is another thing (and that is what happens now). And pressuring other countries (either via ambassadors or other venues) and threatening with sanctions when they come to their own conclusions is yet another thing again.
  - Alupis 7y ago
    > Banning corporations from doing that in their own commercial networks is another thing I'd argue that it depends. Many of the corporations that would run this type of equipment end up transmitting, storing, or using sensitive and/or secret information (ranging from corporate trade secrets/IP to classified information), or could be open to abuse in other meaningful ways (cell towers recording private phone calls from important people, etc). There's no real limit to the potential abuse. We only have to look at what the US Govt has done already, and that's with a legal system designed to prevent such a thing, as well as needing voluntary cooperation from independent private companies. Change all that to largely nationalized companies and a legal system which doesn't care... and you can see where it can go.
    - petschge 7y ago
tssva 7y ago
Based upon my 24 years of experience using Cisco gear I would strongly lean towards lousy QA.
paulgrahamisfat 7y ago
Apple fought the US government. Why can't Huawei fight theirs? Oh, right... They will be executed if they do.
cljs-js-eval 7y ago
Given what China is willing to do in Xinjiang, can it really be called fear mongering? Someone willing to turn an entire state into a surveillance camp is definitely ok with using a hardware company to spy. In what world would they have scruples about spying with Huawei but not in restricting the freedoms of an entire ethnic group? For what it's worth, I'm aware that could partially apply to the US as well.
myrandomcomment 7y ago
The difference is it our "company" that screwed up. If it is Cisco there is a reasonable belief that they just screwed it up. If it is a China company the assumption has to be it was for the government. That does not have to be the truth, but it is just the way it is. The reality is that both just liked screwed up.

mythrwy 7y ago

All that shows is gee, it really can and really does happen. Which is a stronger argument, not weaker for suspicious treatment of Huawei by Western governments.

mey 7y ago

Watching from afar, the amount of huge holes in Cisco are staggering. I don't really understand IT's love of Cisco, other than that's all they've certed in/invested in/never get fired for IBM mentality. For people in the networking space, what makes you use cisco for firewalls/core routing at this point?

laurentdc 7y ago
* abundance of people with Cisco knowledge and certifications, everyone has fiddled with a Cisco CLI at some point in their career * devices on the gray market are very cheap, low barrier to entry for setting up a lab or a SMB infrastructure * the lower end stuff is pretty much set and forget (e.g. we still have 1700 series devices from year 2003 routing calls without a hiccup) * "nobody ever got fired for buying Cisco" company mentality
- coding123 7y ago
  https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/11/cisco_sap_failures/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/11/cisco_sap_failures/
bane 7y ago
Cisco is the Oracle of networking gear.

Alupis 7y ago

I don't really see the fear mongering or problem here. This executive order would forbid the government from purchasing and installing Telecom/Networking equipment that would be considered to have a higher than acceptable risk. Given that China isn't exactly the most friendly nation to the US, and given Huawei is by nature, an extension of the Chinese Government, it's not unreasonable to assume China might at some point in the future (or already is) use Huawei to conduct electronic espionage against other nations. Just like it wouldn't be unreasonable for China to forbid purchase and use of Cisco equipment within the Chinese government. (We should also not forget or excuse Chinese IP theft which has enabled Huawei to produce competitive products in the first place...)

petschge 7y ago
The government deciding to not purchase that equipment for their own use in sensitive networks is one thing. (And this was already in place before this executive order.) Banning corporations from doing that in their own commercial networks is another thing (and that is what happens now). And pressuring other countries (either via ambassadors or other venues) and threatening with sanctions when they come to their own conclusions is yet another thing again.
- Alupis 7y ago
  > Banning corporations from doing that in their own commercial networks is another thing I'd argue that it depends. Many of the corporations that would run this type of equipment end up transmitting, storing, or using sensitive and/or secret information (ranging from corporate trade secrets/IP to classified information), or could be open to abuse in other meaningful ways (cell towers recording private phone calls from important people, etc). There's no real limit to the potential abuse. We only have to look at what the US Govt has done already, and that's with a legal system designed to prevent such a thing, as well as needing voluntary cooperation from independent private companies. Change all that to largely nationalized companies and a legal system which doesn't care... and you can see where it can go.
  - petschge 7y ago

tssva 7y ago

Based upon my 24 years of experience using Cisco gear I would strongly lean towards lousy QA.

paulgrahamisfat 7y ago

Apple fought the US government. Why can't Huawei fight theirs? Oh, right... They will be executed if they do.

cljs-js-eval 7y ago

Given what China is willing to do in Xinjiang, can it really be called fear mongering? Someone willing to turn an entire state into a surveillance camp is definitely ok with using a hardware company to spy. In what world would they have scruples about spying with Huawei but not in restricting the freedoms of an entire ethnic group? For what it's worth, I'm aware that could partially apply to the US as well.

myrandomcomment 7y ago

The difference is it our "company" that screwed up. If it is Cisco there is a reasonable belief that they just screwed it up. If it is a China company the assumption has to be it was for the government. That does not have to be the truth, but it is just the way it is. The reality is that both just liked screwed up.