6 ms·

That's not my experience with rural areas at all. Instead, it's usually pretty noisy because of all the neighbors with barking dogs (yes, there are neighbors i

by magduf 7y ago

That's not my experience with rural areas at all. Instead, it's usually pretty noisy because of all the neighbors with barking dogs (yes, there are neighbors in rural areas; most people can't afford 40 acres all to themselves, so they live in little clusters), and it stinks because of the cow and horse manure. Just hope you're not located close to a pig farm. And of course there's all the noisy trucks everyone drives around in. I don't know where people get this idea that rural America is some kind of idyllic, serene place. It really isn't, for the most part. If you want idyllic, you'll have to find some extremely remote place in the mountains of the western states.

camjohnson26 7y ago
I smell more sewage in the city I live in than cow manure or pig farms visiting the rural areas.
- magduf 7y ago
  Do you live in NYC? That city really does stink. However, I just spent 2 weeks in Japanese cities, including almost a week in Tokyo, and it was extremely clean. Even on trash day it didn't stink.
  - opportune 7y ago
    It can stink sometimes down by the canals
  - adamson 7y ago
    It's by no means a constant, permeating stink. Sure, there are some neighborhoods with open air food markets that can be smelly, or some that are downwind of waste processing centers (most of East Williamsburg), or smelly because of wastewater (parts of East New York and Canarsie), but for 95% of the city, you're not going to smell anything unpleasant unless you're leaning in to sniff trash bags.
    - magduf 7y ago
      I've walked all around Manhattan many times. No, it's not a constant, permeating stink, but that city does stink a lot, though it's worse of course when they put the trash out since NYC doesn't have alleys like other American cities. However, I haven't had the same experience in non-US cities like Tokyo and Munich. Those cities are just much, much cleaner in many ways than NYC, and it's not just the smell.
      - dagw 7y ago
        'Throwing' your trash out on the street every week is a solution to the trash problem which probably accounts for a lot of smell. I bet if they stopped doing that then it would improve a lot.
        magduf 7y ago
        In NYC, they can't stop doing that. I read an article about this very thing not too long ago. The problem is that NYC (Manhattan actually) doesn't have alleys, like other American cities such as Chicago. So there's no place to put dumpsters or trash for trash crews to pick up, except right out on the curb in front. More frequent pickups could alleviate the problem though.
  - jtms 7y ago
    NYC is a variable bouquet of odors varying on the scale of “best thing you’d have ever smelled in life” to “omg did something die and crawl up my nose” all within the span of a single block. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
  - psychomugs 7y ago
    I live in Tokyo, and you'll get the occasional strong whiff of sewage that's worse than anything I've ever smelled in NYC. There are also quite a few public bathrooms that don't have hand soap and some of them you'd be better off not using. I think that the Japanese discipline to not litter coupled with the overstaffed garbage disposal workforce is what keeps the city clean, at least visually.
logjammin 7y ago
It's a weird fetishization, isn't it? I think that's a really good point. Dovetails with political movements that idealize(d) the working man/class, as if poor people couldn't be as flawed and human as the rest of us. It's pretty bold to be talking about cities and mental health when about five minutes in a small town will vividly show you the backstabbing, gossipy, popularity contest bullshit that comes with "closely knit communities" of all types. Like someone said, it's all a big trade-off. Human beings can go thoroughly nuts anywhere they lay their heads.
- magduf 7y ago
  You bring up another thing: small towns are not actually "rural". Rural is when you literally cannot walk to a store in less than an hour to get food. Small towns really aren't that different from cities, just at a smaller scale. Things are still close together (in fact, usually they're more dense than suburbs) and walkable, if the town was laid out before the rise of the automobile. Of course, they have big downsides as you point out: everyone knows everyone so there's little anonymity, and on top of that there aren't many jobs.
  - dpeck 7y ago
    Its interesting how many people mistake those for being the same. I grew up in a rural area and often at social events people will introduce me to their friends who grew up in small towns assuming we'd have a lot to talk about. From many of these conversations over the years I don't think the experience growing up could have been more different.
  - logjammin 7y ago
    Point taken! Thx for input!
  - richjdsmith 7y ago
    Out of curiosity, are you actually from a small town? If so, what was it that everyone knew everyone? The town I grew up in was around 20,000 people. While I absolutely ran into people I knew when out doing errands, I don't think it was ever to the extent my mother-in-law (someone who despises small towns) imagined it to be. I am curious where this notion came from.
crx07 7y ago
Thank you so much for making the counterpoint. I grew up in a rural setting and would give just about anything to take back that loss of years of my life. A few extras: * You can't exercise, because dogs don't just bark but also chase you, and no one cares or thinks you're the asshole for complaining because you're in the country. * Daily life is /very/ stressful. Forgot milk? Well, fuck you, buddy, because you're either doing without it or you're making a 50 minute round-trip that costs $8 extra in fuel. Want a pizza delivered? Nope. Chinese? Hahah. Need someone to come out and provide service? Oh, sorry, the first five places on Yelp don't serve your area. Grandma's calling? Sorry, but you're going to have to get used to repeating things not just once or twice but also a third and fourth time because that one bar of signal isn't going to cut it. * Depression, drug use, and other adverse coping strategies are literally epidemic -- my entire neighborhood of stable working adults where I grew up all ended up on some combination of meth/oxycontin/xanax/antidepressants with alcohol use in excess of anything I ever see at 2 am throughout the nightlife districts of a top 10 US city. * Oh, do you think you might need to get actual mental help? Well, those handful of upstanding people who aren't addicts are now going to be judging the hell out of you. Most conditions are just you being weak minded or morally inept. And don't even think about talking to someone or others about your thoughts, because that's not something you do. (And if it's sadness, fear, anxiety, or hallucinations, expect to have everyone suggest spurious religious interpretations instead of physical explanations, which, honestly, as a devout Christian, I now find really damaging both to peoples mental and spiritual health.) * Friendships are forged as a practical proximal matter and not by choice. No one else benefits your mind or academic or professional achievement, and you probably won't share common interests -- you're buddies because Larry's the most likable dude on your block. In fact, even among friends, most people hold a majority of views that you find seriously revolting, and very few people appreciate any kind of artistic or intellectual activity of any kind. Romantic relationships are even less glamorous. * Did we go over your essentials yet? Oh, wait, that'll be $70/mo for 1.5Mbps DSL that can't stream Netflix. The water bill will be double any reasonable amount and wastewater is processed in your back yard and at your own expense/peril. If you aren't lucky, you may even need your own well. You'll also have to burn trash or contract a company to come take it. Groceries and house supplies cost 30-50% more per quantity, and you have very little to no selection. * Trash, everywhere. This alone makes me question anyone who thinks mental health is in any way better in a rural environment. It's sick having to look at collapsing, skirtless mobile homes and junk cars and scrap materials strewn across 15 peoples lawns on the way to the gas station. Any "green space" consists of trespassing behind barbed wire instead of a neatly maintained park.
viburnum 7y ago
Finnish has a unit of distance that means “distance a barking dog can be heard.” https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/peninkulma https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/peninkulma I like rural places fine but the constant barking kills me.
- magduf 7y ago
  Is constantly barking dogs a thing in rural Finland too? I thought this would something that only America would have, along with various very poor and underdeveloped nations.
  - sk0g 7y ago
    (Shep|reindeer)herding and hunting dogs are common for the Sami people in the country side, while I don't see any reason for dogs to be less common for the average populace. Some would have a practical use too, to protect from foxes and (lone) wolves when possible, and of course, some are kept as pets.
elliotec 7y ago
I live in Salt Lake City, and while of course I have a strong bias, I'd argue we have the best of all worlds right here. The city, mountains, and just as close, some of the most remote and serene desert in the world.
- cjmcqueen 7y ago
  I love SLC, but the pollution has gotten too intense.
  - elliotec 7y ago
    While I totally agree that the pollution sucks when it sucks here, it has been trending better year over year for the past ten years[0], and is lower on the list than the most populous parts of California (including the entire LA area and the entire SF Bay Area) in terms of year-round, short-term, and overall air pollution[1]. [0]https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/83hj3v/air_pollution_trends_in_salt_lake_city_oc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/83hj3v/air... [1]https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=2452992&itype=CMSID https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=2452992&itype=CMSI...
    - mrosett 7y ago
      Thanks for sharing the data. That wasn’t my impression.
d-sc 7y ago
I live in a less densely populated area. It’s pretty nice. Rural living is nice if you can afford it. Turns out lots of wealthy people buy up the nice rural places. It’s kinda like the city in that regard. Being poor sucks, urban or rural is mostly a preference if you’re not middle class.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
I remember waking up in boracay and Ubud to thousands of farm animals chattering (lots of chickens, cows, etc...). It’s kind of a surreal SE Asia experience.
RickJWagner 7y ago
I've lived most of my life in rural US. I currently live in a house on about 4 acres. That's plenty. There aren't any stinky farms or noisy trucks around. There is a lot of grass to mow, though. All things considered, I like it.
pyromine 7y ago
Depends on your definition of rural, to me if you can see your neighbors house it likely isn't very rural... though the American west is a literal different cause many of the rural towns have all the residential packed on top of each other.
jjeaff 7y ago
I'll grant you that pig farms stink, but unless you are talking about a large concentration of cattle, like a feed lot, then cow and horse manure is just not generally considered "stinky" by anyone but the most fragile of city dweller. Especially for those that grew up around it. Grass fed cattle dung barely smells even when it's fresh. Same with horses. Pigs are the same, only when in concentration.
Fjolsvith 7y ago
We took care of our neighbors large barking dogs. An ultrasonic device fitted on the side of our house emits a sharp piercing noise when it hears a dog bark. The dogs don't bark up our tree.

by magduf 7y ago

camjohnson26 7y ago

I smell more sewage in the city I live in than cow manure or pig farms visiting the rural areas.

magduf 7y ago
Do you live in NYC? That city really does stink. However, I just spent 2 weeks in Japanese cities, including almost a week in Tokyo, and it was extremely clean. Even on trash day it didn't stink.
- opportune 7y ago
  It can stink sometimes down by the canals
- adamson 7y ago
  It's by no means a constant, permeating stink. Sure, there are some neighborhoods with open air food markets that can be smelly, or some that are downwind of waste processing centers (most of East Williamsburg), or smelly because of wastewater (parts of East New York and Canarsie), but for 95% of the city, you're not going to smell anything unpleasant unless you're leaning in to sniff trash bags.
  - magduf 7y ago
    I've walked all around Manhattan many times. No, it's not a constant, permeating stink, but that city does stink a lot, though it's worse of course when they put the trash out since NYC doesn't have alleys like other American cities. However, I haven't had the same experience in non-US cities like Tokyo and Munich. Those cities are just much, much cleaner in many ways than NYC, and it's not just the smell.
    - dagw 7y ago
      'Throwing' your trash out on the street every week is a solution to the trash problem which probably accounts for a lot of smell. I bet if they stopped doing that then it would improve a lot.
      - magduf 7y ago
        In NYC, they can't stop doing that. I read an article about this very thing not too long ago. The problem is that NYC (Manhattan actually) doesn't have alleys, like other American cities such as Chicago. So there's no place to put dumpsters or trash for trash crews to pick up, except right out on the curb in front. More frequent pickups could alleviate the problem though.
- jtms 7y ago
  NYC is a variable bouquet of odors varying on the scale of “best thing you’d have ever smelled in life” to “omg did something die and crawl up my nose” all within the span of a single block. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
- psychomugs 7y ago
  I live in Tokyo, and you'll get the occasional strong whiff of sewage that's worse than anything I've ever smelled in NYC. There are also quite a few public bathrooms that don't have hand soap and some of them you'd be better off not using. I think that the Japanese discipline to not litter coupled with the overstaffed garbage disposal workforce is what keeps the city clean, at least visually.

logjammin 7y ago

It's a weird fetishization, isn't it? I think that's a really good point. Dovetails with political movements that idealize(d) the working man/class, as if poor people couldn't be as flawed and human as the rest of us. It's pretty bold to be talking about cities and mental health when about five minutes in a small town will vividly show you the backstabbing, gossipy, popularity contest bullshit that comes with "closely knit communities" of all types. Like someone said, it's all a big trade-off. Human beings can go thoroughly nuts anywhere they lay their heads.

magduf 7y ago
You bring up another thing: small towns are not actually "rural". Rural is when you literally cannot walk to a store in less than an hour to get food. Small towns really aren't that different from cities, just at a smaller scale. Things are still close together (in fact, usually they're more dense than suburbs) and walkable, if the town was laid out before the rise of the automobile. Of course, they have big downsides as you point out: everyone knows everyone so there's little anonymity, and on top of that there aren't many jobs.
- dpeck 7y ago
  Its interesting how many people mistake those for being the same. I grew up in a rural area and often at social events people will introduce me to their friends who grew up in small towns assuming we'd have a lot to talk about. From many of these conversations over the years I don't think the experience growing up could have been more different.
- logjammin 7y ago
  Point taken! Thx for input!
- richjdsmith 7y ago
  Out of curiosity, are you actually from a small town? If so, what was it that everyone knew everyone? The town I grew up in was around 20,000 people. While I absolutely ran into people I knew when out doing errands, I don't think it was ever to the extent my mother-in-law (someone who despises small towns) imagined it to be. I am curious where this notion came from.

crx07 7y ago

Thank you so much for making the counterpoint. I grew up in a rural setting and would give just about anything to take back that loss of years of my life. A few extras: * You can't exercise, because dogs don't just bark but also chase you, and no one cares or thinks you're the asshole for complaining because you're in the country. * Daily life is /very/ stressful. Forgot milk? Well, fuck you, buddy, because you're either doing without it or you're making a 50 minute round-trip that costs $8 extra in fuel. Want a pizza delivered? Nope. Chinese? Hahah. Need someone to come out and provide service? Oh, sorry, the first five places on Yelp don't serve your area. Grandma's calling? Sorry, but you're going to have to get used to repeating things not just once or twice but also a third and fourth time because that one bar of signal isn't going to cut it. * Depression, drug use, and other adverse coping strategies are literally epidemic -- my entire neighborhood of stable working adults where I grew up all ended up on some combination of meth/oxycontin/xanax/antidepressants with alcohol use in excess of anything I ever see at 2 am throughout the nightlife districts of a top 10 US city. * Oh, do you think you might need to get actual mental help? Well, those handful of upstanding people who aren't addicts are now going to be judging the hell out of you. Most conditions are just you being weak minded or morally inept. And don't even think about talking to someone or others about your thoughts, because that's not something you do. (And if it's sadness, fear, anxiety, or hallucinations, expect to have everyone suggest spurious religious interpretations instead of physical explanations, which, honestly, as a devout Christian, I now find really damaging both to peoples mental and spiritual health.) * Friendships are forged as a practical proximal matter and not by choice. No one else benefits your mind or academic or professional achievement, and you probably won't share common interests -- you're buddies because Larry's the most likable dude on your block. In fact, even among friends, most people hold a majority of views that you find seriously revolting, and very few people appreciate any kind of artistic or intellectual activity of any kind. Romantic relationships are even less glamorous. * Did we go over your essentials yet? Oh, wait, that'll be $70/mo for 1.5Mbps DSL that can't stream Netflix. The water bill will be double any reasonable amount and wastewater is processed in your back yard and at your own expense/peril. If you aren't lucky, you may even need your own well. You'll also have to burn trash or contract a company to come take it. Groceries and house supplies cost 30-50% more per quantity, and you have very little to no selection. * Trash, everywhere. This alone makes me question anyone who thinks mental health is in any way better in a rural environment. It's sick having to look at collapsing, skirtless mobile homes and junk cars and scrap materials strewn across 15 peoples lawns on the way to the gas station. Any "green space" consists of trespassing behind barbed wire instead of a neatly maintained park.

viburnum 7y ago

Finnish has a unit of distance that means “distance a barking dog can be heard.” https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/peninkulma https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/peninkulma I like rural places fine but the constant barking kills me.

magduf 7y ago
Is constantly barking dogs a thing in rural Finland too? I thought this would something that only America would have, along with various very poor and underdeveloped nations.
- sk0g 7y ago
  (Shep|reindeer)herding and hunting dogs are common for the Sami people in the country side, while I don't see any reason for dogs to be less common for the average populace. Some would have a practical use too, to protect from foxes and (lone) wolves when possible, and of course, some are kept as pets.

elliotec 7y ago

I live in Salt Lake City, and while of course I have a strong bias, I'd argue we have the best of all worlds right here. The city, mountains, and just as close, some of the most remote and serene desert in the world.

cjmcqueen 7y ago
I love SLC, but the pollution has gotten too intense.
- elliotec 7y ago
  While I totally agree that the pollution sucks when it sucks here, it has been trending better year over year for the past ten years[0], and is lower on the list than the most populous parts of California (including the entire LA area and the entire SF Bay Area) in terms of year-round, short-term, and overall air pollution[1]. [0]https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/83hj3v/air_pollution_trends_in_salt_lake_city_oc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/83hj3v/air... [1]https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=2452992&itype=CMSID https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=2452992&itype=CMSI...
  - mrosett 7y ago
    Thanks for sharing the data. That wasn’t my impression.

d-sc 7y ago

I live in a less densely populated area. It’s pretty nice. Rural living is nice if you can afford it. Turns out lots of wealthy people buy up the nice rural places. It’s kinda like the city in that regard. Being poor sucks, urban or rural is mostly a preference if you’re not middle class.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

I remember waking up in boracay and Ubud to thousands of farm animals chattering (lots of chickens, cows, etc...). It’s kind of a surreal SE Asia experience.

RickJWagner 7y ago

I've lived most of my life in rural US. I currently live in a house on about 4 acres. That's plenty. There aren't any stinky farms or noisy trucks around. There is a lot of grass to mow, though. All things considered, I like it.

pyromine 7y ago

Depends on your definition of rural, to me if you can see your neighbors house it likely isn't very rural... though the American west is a literal different cause many of the rural towns have all the residential packed on top of each other.

jjeaff 7y ago

I'll grant you that pig farms stink, but unless you are talking about a large concentration of cattle, like a feed lot, then cow and horse manure is just not generally considered "stinky" by anyone but the most fragile of city dweller. Especially for those that grew up around it. Grass fed cattle dung barely smells even when it's fresh. Same with horses. Pigs are the same, only when in concentration.

Fjolsvith 7y ago

We took care of our neighbors large barking dogs. An ultrasonic device fitted on the side of our house emits a sharp piercing noise when it hears a dog bark. The dogs don't bark up our tree.