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sooo all other countries will pay for it while US will keep pumping oil and burning coal? With US leaving the Paris Accord? That sounds very strange.

Angostura 7y ago
Soooo, we introduce a set of trade tariffs where imports are tax depending on the degree to which the exporting country has already imposed a carbon tax on manufacturer.
- leesalminen 7y ago
  But CNN has spent the past month telling me that tariffs = bad. I guess they’re OK so long as they’re introduced for noble reasons?
  - DanHulton 7y ago
    I mean... yeah. Tariffs are bad for the economy. But if you're willing to slow down the economy for a good enough reason, then yes, it's okay.
    - SkyBelow 7y ago
      So tariff's are a tool that can be used for good or bad? So, was the message the previous poster receiving that tariff's are bad, or that the current use of tariff's are bad? If it was the former, it disagrees with your message.
      - baq 7y ago
        Wait is this place CNN or is it HN?
        SkyBelow 7y ago
        I'm not clear on how that factors in. The previous poster's point was that there was a push of the message that 'tariffs are bad' that seems to have some level of social acceptance, but now that there is a desired use of tariffs there seems to be a change in opinion. That is overall a very weak standard of evidence, and taken by itself isn't worth much at all. But taken with other incidents in the past few years people might reach the conclusion that there is a great deal of double standards being used to measure certain politicians. This results in a comment said in passing that signals they feel that the current acceptance or lack thereof of tariffs is another case of that double standard. Perhaps one could argue that such said in passing remarks are not acceptable for the level of discourse excepted by NH comments (though this risks becoming recursive).
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Tariffs implemented by an idiot with no economic justification are bad. Tariffs that capture externalities are good.
- trickstra 7y ago
  You are missing the point. Imposing tariffs is a way to force other countries to follow some rules. But if your own country doesn't follow those rules, what sense does it make? And that's the situation here, because the 3 largest CO2 producers are US, Russia and China, naturally, because they are biggest. But China actually invested heavily into solar and lowering their CO2, such as electric buses, while US left Paris Accord, rejected Green New Deal, started more oil drills and did a bunch of other things that actually increased their CO2 production. So if anyone should impose carbon duties, it's everyone else around US to force US to start following the rules.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    I talking about the other countries. Import import duties reflecting the cost of the global pollution created by the manufacturer of the goods.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
I purposefully left out a bunch of details because then people start debating the details rather than the main point. So I used the very nebulous "meeting some reasonable target for carbon emissions". If the country imposing the carbon duty isn't also meeting the "reasonable target" then the carbon duty becomes very hypocritical and ineffective at influencing other nations. I also didn't say that it has to be the US imposing this carbon duty, I see it as most effective if it's a small group of countries working together to try and grow their action into a large group.

Angostura 7y ago

Soooo, we introduce a set of trade tariffs where imports are tax depending on the degree to which the exporting country has already imposed a carbon tax on manufacturer.

leesalminen 7y ago
But CNN has spent the past month telling me that tariffs = bad. I guess they’re OK so long as they’re introduced for noble reasons?
- DanHulton 7y ago
  I mean... yeah. Tariffs are bad for the economy. But if you're willing to slow down the economy for a good enough reason, then yes, it's okay.
  - SkyBelow 7y ago
    So tariff's are a tool that can be used for good or bad? So, was the message the previous poster receiving that tariff's are bad, or that the current use of tariff's are bad? If it was the former, it disagrees with your message.
    - baq 7y ago
      Wait is this place CNN or is it HN?
      - SkyBelow 7y ago
        I'm not clear on how that factors in. The previous poster's point was that there was a push of the message that 'tariffs are bad' that seems to have some level of social acceptance, but now that there is a desired use of tariffs there seems to be a change in opinion. That is overall a very weak standard of evidence, and taken by itself isn't worth much at all. But taken with other incidents in the past few years people might reach the conclusion that there is a great deal of double standards being used to measure certain politicians. This results in a comment said in passing that signals they feel that the current acceptance or lack thereof of tariffs is another case of that double standard. Perhaps one could argue that such said in passing remarks are not acceptable for the level of discourse excepted by NH comments (though this risks becoming recursive).
- mikeash 7y ago
  Tariffs implemented by an idiot with no economic justification are bad. Tariffs that capture externalities are good.
trickstra 7y ago
You are missing the point. Imposing tariffs is a way to force other countries to follow some rules. But if your own country doesn't follow those rules, what sense does it make? And that's the situation here, because the 3 largest CO2 producers are US, Russia and China, naturally, because they are biggest. But China actually invested heavily into solar and lowering their CO2, such as electric buses, while US left Paris Accord, rejected Green New Deal, started more oil drills and did a bunch of other things that actually increased their CO2 production. So if anyone should impose carbon duties, it's everyone else around US to force US to start following the rules.
- Angostura 7y ago
  I talking about the other countries. Import import duties reflecting the cost of the global pollution created by the manufacturer of the goods.

bryanlarsen 7y ago

I purposefully left out a bunch of details because then people start debating the details rather than the main point. So I used the very nebulous "meeting some reasonable target for carbon emissions". If the country imposing the carbon duty isn't also meeting the "reasonable target" then the carbon duty becomes very hypocritical and ineffective at influencing other nations. I also didn't say that it has to be the US imposing this carbon duty, I see it as most effective if it's a small group of countries working together to try and grow their action into a large group.