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Uber represents the new kind of company where all the risk is pushed to the employee, while all the profits are pulled to the company. Making all your employees

Uber represents the new kind of company where all the risk is pushed to the employee, while all the profits are pulled to the company. Making all your employees supposedly outside contractors facilitates a race to the bottom between these contractors. Same with food delivery companies. The drivers have to provide and maintain the vehicle, organize their own health care, pension and insurance. Some companies even disallow them to work for different companies, which is a direct violation of the contractor dynamic. Recently a Dutch judge ruled that these food delivery contractors were not actual free agents but bound to their one supplier of rides. The judged ruling was that this is not correct as they lacked the freedom to work for other companies. I find it very disappointing that companies like Uber and Airbnb managed to create these amazing platforms but have such disrespect for the wellbeing of their workers or how they affect communities in the world.

creaghpatr 7y ago
It's the same with industries like film in the US, only difference is the hourly rate gets to be pretty high after a few years of work and presumed advancement.
- Kye 7y ago
  Film has unions. Remember the 2007-2008 Writers Guild strike? People dismissed their demand for fair streaming residuals. "Streaming won't go anywhere, give me back my TV!"
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  In film you have a chance to be a real freelancer. You have a track record and you can jump between different productions. You can work your way up. An Uber driver has none of this. He will always stay a driver, never move up, have no reputation to increase market worth. It’s a total dead end.
kevin_b_er 7y ago
This was the designed purpose of these companies. They're more efficient at providing wealth for the top end by taking it from the "employees".
AlexandrB 7y ago
> but have such disrespect for the wellbeing of their workers or how they affect communities in the world. That's the innovation and the reason for the multi-billion dollar VC valuations while Uber was private. The app/platform is nearly a commodity at this point. Most taxi companies in my area have apps with similar features. Edit: Notice that Lyft is basically the same story and Airbnb's main value-add is stripping regulations from the short term rental industry (formerly dominated by regulated hotels and BnBs). When someone pitches an "Uber but for X" they're often implicitly saying that they want to strip job security and labor protections from the people doing X and consumer protections from the people using X.
- jorvi 7y ago
  > they're often implicitly saying that they want to strip job security and labor protections from the people doing X and consumer protections from the people using X. I'd say its much more likely when the average person wants 'Uber but for X' they mean cheaper prices for better service than X. Taxis got completely destroyed by Uber because they are often rude, unclean, (unpredictably) expensive and scammy. Hotels feel so much heat from AirBNB because AirBNB offers better 'suites', at better locations, for 25-50% cheaper. Most people are only fleetingly aware of the problems these services cause by externalizing a lot of costs.
  - danharaj 7y ago
    OP said "pitches", so was talking about entrepreneurs and VC's, not average people.
    - erikig 7y ago
      You'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs and VC's are average people...
simonh 7y ago
It's not entirely new though. The majority of Taxi drivers are already essentially independent contractors. It's not as though Uber is competing with an established industry of full employees.
jsight 7y ago
> Uber represents the new kind of company where all the risk is pushed to the employee, while all the profits are pulled to the company. What profits are you referring to? My issue with this line of thinking is that it basically makes it sound like these companies are sitting on some huge volume of excess cashflow that they could freely give to their contractors if they simply chose to do so. AFAICT, they actually charge similar rates to taxis (which also usually use contractors here) while not making as much money, and providing a vastly better end user experience. I don't see a lot of room for better worker pay here.

creaghpatr 7y ago

It's the same with industries like film in the US, only difference is the hourly rate gets to be pretty high after a few years of work and presumed advancement.

Kye 7y ago
Film has unions. Remember the 2007-2008 Writers Guild strike? People dismissed their demand for fair streaming residuals. "Streaming won't go anywhere, give me back my TV!"
maxxxxx 7y ago
In film you have a chance to be a real freelancer. You have a track record and you can jump between different productions. You can work your way up. An Uber driver has none of this. He will always stay a driver, never move up, have no reputation to increase market worth. It’s a total dead end.

kevin_b_er 7y ago

This was the designed purpose of these companies. They're more efficient at providing wealth for the top end by taking it from the "employees".

AlexandrB 7y ago

> but have such disrespect for the wellbeing of their workers or how they affect communities in the world. That's the innovation and the reason for the multi-billion dollar VC valuations while Uber was private. The app/platform is nearly a commodity at this point. Most taxi companies in my area have apps with similar features. Edit: Notice that Lyft is basically the same story and Airbnb's main value-add is stripping regulations from the short term rental industry (formerly dominated by regulated hotels and BnBs). When someone pitches an "Uber but for X" they're often implicitly saying that they want to strip job security and labor protections from the people doing X and consumer protections from the people using X.

jorvi 7y ago
> they're often implicitly saying that they want to strip job security and labor protections from the people doing X and consumer protections from the people using X. I'd say its much more likely when the average person wants 'Uber but for X' they mean cheaper prices for better service than X. Taxis got completely destroyed by Uber because they are often rude, unclean, (unpredictably) expensive and scammy. Hotels feel so much heat from AirBNB because AirBNB offers better 'suites', at better locations, for 25-50% cheaper. Most people are only fleetingly aware of the problems these services cause by externalizing a lot of costs.
- danharaj 7y ago
  OP said "pitches", so was talking about entrepreneurs and VC's, not average people.
  - erikig 7y ago
    You'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs and VC's are average people...

simonh 7y ago

It's not entirely new though. The majority of Taxi drivers are already essentially independent contractors. It's not as though Uber is competing with an established industry of full employees.

jsight 7y ago

> Uber represents the new kind of company where all the risk is pushed to the employee, while all the profits are pulled to the company. What profits are you referring to? My issue with this line of thinking is that it basically makes it sound like these companies are sitting on some huge volume of excess cashflow that they could freely give to their contractors if they simply chose to do so. AFAICT, they actually charge similar rates to taxis (which also usually use contractors here) while not making as much money, and providing a vastly better end user experience. I don't see a lot of room for better worker pay here.