15 ms·

We built our cities to isolate us, it's not that strange that we're now isolated. I was born and raised in Europe, came to the US when I got married, lived in C

We built our cities to isolate us, it's not that strange that we're now isolated. I was born and raised in Europe, came to the US when I got married, lived in California for the most part. My quality of life has dramatically worsened even as I make more money I've ever made. I attribute that to the lack of casual spaces for aggregation, to free time outside being limited almost exclusively to places where to sit down and eat, shopping or hiking. I don't walk to work, I don't have a neighborhood bar where I can stop after work and see my neighbors and shoot the shit, when my wife and kid left town for a weekend I was extremely lonely and I decided to garden. When I'm old and will not be able to drive anymore, this will get even worse. This country has built one of the worst lifestyles I've experienced in my life and it's not sustainable. I know it's difficult but the sooner we all realize we have built a bad place to thrive and we tear it down, the sooner we'll be happier.

asdff 7y ago
I'll agree, living in the suburbs would be soul crushing. That's why you live in a city and ditch the car commute.
- luckydata 7y ago
  Not that easy in San Francisco with a family.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Maybe it depends on the city and your age/marital status. I found living in the city (DC) extremely lonely after having kids. Mostly 20-something professionals gunning their careers. Moved out to the suburbs and now actually have neighbors to talk to, ones with kids that’ll come over and have a beer while the kids run around. All the driving isn’t ideal, but I kind of like tooling around the mall. I agree some of the problems are uniquely American. Having to spend a million dollars on a house to afford to live in a decent urban school district in places like NYC or SF or DC fucks up really messes up important social networks. Even if you can afford it, you’re surrounded entirely and solely by other people who can afford it.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    People want to be surrounded by other people like them, consciously or subconsciously. Whether it be under the guise of physical security, security of their house’s sell price, security of their kids education, all of these lead to the same place. Stratification by income/class/job security. I don’t know if there is a good way to combat this, without restricting people’s rights. People will sort by quality of school district when choosing where to buy a home and live in the one best one they can afford, and that correlates super well with parents’ socioeconomic class. Reducing the income/wealth gap seems to be the only way on my opinion to overcome this phenomenon.
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  Even US cities have abysmally bad walkability. It's a complete joke compared to somewhere like Japan or Germany. If Germany is an NFL team, the US would be the local middle school's backup squad. Most US cities are designed to force you to drive, and if any walking for transportation does occur, it's a small miracle, because they make it as painful as they can: wide roads, high speed limits, a dearth of pedestrian islands, few if any cut throughs, single use zoning, super low density zoning, moats of asphalt around businesses, etc. Just look at the data for how much walking for transport actually happens in the US. It's comically small.
- alexpotato 7y ago
  I used to live in Manhattan and there were certain parts of the city that would take more time to get to than my current suburban commute. e.g. I lived on 42nd street and the west side and to get to the 20's on the east side might take me up to an hour walking.
jlarocco 7y ago
The US is a huge place, and your experience, though not unique, isn't how everybody here lives. Before I started working from home full time I had a 15 minute bike commute. There's a friendly coffee shop across the street. I can walk to the grocery store. There's an awesome microbrewery and restaurant across the street.
- luckydata 7y ago
  Most people. I lived in Ann Arbor, quality of life was a smidge better (horrible food compared to California, bad climate, very high property taxes, horrifying roads...) but jobs for a tech worker were really few and far in between. Let's face it, if you don't find a remote job (and they are still difficult to find) then your reality is probably a lot more likely to look like mine than yours. The US is a lot more car dependent than any other place on earth, like it or not.
  - scruple 7y ago
    Even then... I have the full-time remote job. The prospect isn't getting the remote job, it's hanging onto it _for the rest of my career_. I still live in SoCal, despite desperately wanting to leave it behind, almost entirely because I feel compelled to live near a strong tech / job market for the job security that it provides myself and my family.
    - njepa 7y ago
      I would say largely the same, but mostly put the emphasis on housing. Capital isn't regional anymore, meaning housing largely goes for whatever people dare to sign for. This makes it a lot harder to live a more modest life. Disproportionately hurting smaller cities since being cheap is part of what they have/had going for them. Basically if housing was significantly cheaper for a decent quality of life, rather than mostly just somewhat cheaper, job security would be less of a concern.
  - jlarocco 7y ago
    No argument from me that most of the US is car dependent, but I will contend that it's a personal choice. I've only been working remote for 5 months - before that I biked to work for 10 years. In fact, I still do all of my errands, shopping, etc. by bike. No doubt it's not as easy as in some European cities, but it's a possibility for people who prioritize it.
pertymcpert 7y ago
It really is a shit hole here compared to Europe. Can’t wait to save up and move back.
JacKTrocinskI 7y ago
I grew up in Cali, moved to Poland after uni and have been living here ever since, no regrets. One of the really negative things I remember when growing up was the little cliques that formed at school, you had the popular kids, the nerds, the outcasts, etc. I think a lot of resentment was built up in kids this way, the movie "Mean Girls" portrays the issue well in my opinion. I spent my summers in Poland and saw there was no such divide, you could be a nerd but no one cast you out of some group because of it. Furthermore I never understood why at school during every period I would have different people in my class, and from one year to the next my classmates in single subject would change too, this made it impossible to form strong bonds with classmates. How is that good for anyone? In my opinion it is a terrible system. Thankfully I skateboarded after school, that helped me form strong connections with people over the years that I maintain in touch with to this day. Fix the school system and I think you will fix a lot of social issues as well.
- Aromasin 7y ago
  I think changing students in classes is fine, provided there is ample opportunity to socialise outside of that. In the UK, schools are largely given free reign on how they organise their day but I was lucky enough to go to a school that provisioned for two 30 minute breaks, morning and afternoon, and one 90 minute one for lunch. This definitely isn't the case everywhere mind. Our school also confiscated smart-phones at the beginning of the school day, so all we could do was play sports and card games. Most of my friends now are still those I went to school with, which wasn't strange for me until I went to university and found out that most of my friends there don't talk to any of their friends from school anymore. Out of the 150 people in my year, I still regularly see maybe 40 of them. Within that group everyone has been wildly successful and I put that almost entirely down to the time we got every day to build our social skills. Time spent playing football or rugby on the fields, running around the woods behind our school playing catch and bulldog, trying to find places to wrestle and fight in secret, sitting in classrooms playing card games, or messing around in the music rooms with instruments we couldn't play. They're probably my fondest memories and it baffles me that not only is more time not given to it, but time is spent trying to take that away! It did nothing to stunt our learning, and I'd argue it enhanced it. Most of my friends are in postgraduate education, went to Oxbridge or another Russel group university, and were straight-A children at school. A kid shouldn't be expected to effectively work a 9-5 job (let's not even get started on the ridiculous start times some have to go through, fighting their biological circadian rhythm), with an hour off to rush through lunch before getting thrown back in to classroom. It's no wonder teachers often describe teaching as riot control. A school shouldn't just be a place to learn academics. That puts way too much onus on parents to provide socialisation themselves; meaning children with bad parents, or those that can't afford to send their kids to extra-curricular clubs and sports teams, get left behind and form cracks in a working society.
dorchadas 7y ago
This is one of the main reasons I'm really looking at moving to Europe. The lack of these things is definitely an issue, and even more of one in rural areas.
dominotw 7y ago
> When I'm old and will not be able to drive anymore, this will get even worse. Given you might have good savings, I know lots of old ppl buy condos in the city.
acolumb 7y ago
I've traveled to France a few times. Whenever I walk through the towns, I notice a sense of noncompetition and inclusivity amongst the school-aged children there. This social system eliminates the temporary high that one gets from their "15 minutes" of being the king of the American hill, while substantially decreasing the amount of depression and anger.
baroffoos 7y ago
I have been thinking about this recently. Suburbs are spaced out and empty and cities are loud and uncomfortable. I cant think of any public space I can just hang out around other than the library but that is a quiet space. Most public spaces are owned by businesses and they are designed to get you in and out as fast as possible while spending money the whole time. I wish there were indoor public spaces with comfortable seating and tables where you could just spend time at, meet people and meet with friends. Unfortunately such a space would cost a significant amount and only works if the government funds it entirely. I still think the benefit to society may be worth it.
edisonjoao 7y ago
Hey that's why I've built this! http://foxie.cool http://foxie.cool hope you can find some use in it.

asdff 7y ago

I'll agree, living in the suburbs would be soul crushing. That's why you live in a city and ditch the car commute.

luckydata 7y ago
Not that easy in San Francisco with a family.
rayiner 7y ago
Maybe it depends on the city and your age/marital status. I found living in the city (DC) extremely lonely after having kids. Mostly 20-something professionals gunning their careers. Moved out to the suburbs and now actually have neighbors to talk to, ones with kids that’ll come over and have a beer while the kids run around. All the driving isn’t ideal, but I kind of like tooling around the mall. I agree some of the problems are uniquely American. Having to spend a million dollars on a house to afford to live in a decent urban school district in places like NYC or SF or DC fucks up really messes up important social networks. Even if you can afford it, you’re surrounded entirely and solely by other people who can afford it.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  People want to be surrounded by other people like them, consciously or subconsciously. Whether it be under the guise of physical security, security of their house’s sell price, security of their kids education, all of these lead to the same place. Stratification by income/class/job security. I don’t know if there is a good way to combat this, without restricting people’s rights. People will sort by quality of school district when choosing where to buy a home and live in the one best one they can afford, and that correlates super well with parents’ socioeconomic class. Reducing the income/wealth gap seems to be the only way on my opinion to overcome this phenomenon.
TulliusCicero 7y ago
Even US cities have abysmally bad walkability. It's a complete joke compared to somewhere like Japan or Germany. If Germany is an NFL team, the US would be the local middle school's backup squad. Most US cities are designed to force you to drive, and if any walking for transportation does occur, it's a small miracle, because they make it as painful as they can: wide roads, high speed limits, a dearth of pedestrian islands, few if any cut throughs, single use zoning, super low density zoning, moats of asphalt around businesses, etc. Just look at the data for how much walking for transport actually happens in the US. It's comically small.
alexpotato 7y ago
I used to live in Manhattan and there were certain parts of the city that would take more time to get to than my current suburban commute. e.g. I lived on 42nd street and the west side and to get to the 20's on the east side might take me up to an hour walking.

jlarocco 7y ago

The US is a huge place, and your experience, though not unique, isn't how everybody here lives. Before I started working from home full time I had a 15 minute bike commute. There's a friendly coffee shop across the street. I can walk to the grocery store. There's an awesome microbrewery and restaurant across the street.

luckydata 7y ago
Most people. I lived in Ann Arbor, quality of life was a smidge better (horrible food compared to California, bad climate, very high property taxes, horrifying roads...) but jobs for a tech worker were really few and far in between. Let's face it, if you don't find a remote job (and they are still difficult to find) then your reality is probably a lot more likely to look like mine than yours. The US is a lot more car dependent than any other place on earth, like it or not.
- scruple 7y ago
  Even then... I have the full-time remote job. The prospect isn't getting the remote job, it's hanging onto it _for the rest of my career_. I still live in SoCal, despite desperately wanting to leave it behind, almost entirely because I feel compelled to live near a strong tech / job market for the job security that it provides myself and my family.
  - njepa 7y ago
    I would say largely the same, but mostly put the emphasis on housing. Capital isn't regional anymore, meaning housing largely goes for whatever people dare to sign for. This makes it a lot harder to live a more modest life. Disproportionately hurting smaller cities since being cheap is part of what they have/had going for them. Basically if housing was significantly cheaper for a decent quality of life, rather than mostly just somewhat cheaper, job security would be less of a concern.
- jlarocco 7y ago
  No argument from me that most of the US is car dependent, but I will contend that it's a personal choice. I've only been working remote for 5 months - before that I biked to work for 10 years. In fact, I still do all of my errands, shopping, etc. by bike. No doubt it's not as easy as in some European cities, but it's a possibility for people who prioritize it.

pertymcpert 7y ago

It really is a shit hole here compared to Europe. Can’t wait to save up and move back.

JacKTrocinskI 7y ago

I grew up in Cali, moved to Poland after uni and have been living here ever since, no regrets. One of the really negative things I remember when growing up was the little cliques that formed at school, you had the popular kids, the nerds, the outcasts, etc. I think a lot of resentment was built up in kids this way, the movie "Mean Girls" portrays the issue well in my opinion. I spent my summers in Poland and saw there was no such divide, you could be a nerd but no one cast you out of some group because of it. Furthermore I never understood why at school during every period I would have different people in my class, and from one year to the next my classmates in single subject would change too, this made it impossible to form strong bonds with classmates. How is that good for anyone? In my opinion it is a terrible system. Thankfully I skateboarded after school, that helped me form strong connections with people over the years that I maintain in touch with to this day. Fix the school system and I think you will fix a lot of social issues as well.

Aromasin 7y ago
I think changing students in classes is fine, provided there is ample opportunity to socialise outside of that. In the UK, schools are largely given free reign on how they organise their day but I was lucky enough to go to a school that provisioned for two 30 minute breaks, morning and afternoon, and one 90 minute one for lunch. This definitely isn't the case everywhere mind. Our school also confiscated smart-phones at the beginning of the school day, so all we could do was play sports and card games. Most of my friends now are still those I went to school with, which wasn't strange for me until I went to university and found out that most of my friends there don't talk to any of their friends from school anymore. Out of the 150 people in my year, I still regularly see maybe 40 of them. Within that group everyone has been wildly successful and I put that almost entirely down to the time we got every day to build our social skills. Time spent playing football or rugby on the fields, running around the woods behind our school playing catch and bulldog, trying to find places to wrestle and fight in secret, sitting in classrooms playing card games, or messing around in the music rooms with instruments we couldn't play. They're probably my fondest memories and it baffles me that not only is more time not given to it, but time is spent trying to take that away! It did nothing to stunt our learning, and I'd argue it enhanced it. Most of my friends are in postgraduate education, went to Oxbridge or another Russel group university, and were straight-A children at school. A kid shouldn't be expected to effectively work a 9-5 job (let's not even get started on the ridiculous start times some have to go through, fighting their biological circadian rhythm), with an hour off to rush through lunch before getting thrown back in to classroom. It's no wonder teachers often describe teaching as riot control. A school shouldn't just be a place to learn academics. That puts way too much onus on parents to provide socialisation themselves; meaning children with bad parents, or those that can't afford to send their kids to extra-curricular clubs and sports teams, get left behind and form cracks in a working society.

dorchadas 7y ago

This is one of the main reasons I'm really looking at moving to Europe. The lack of these things is definitely an issue, and even more of one in rural areas.

dominotw 7y ago

> When I'm old and will not be able to drive anymore, this will get even worse. Given you might have good savings, I know lots of old ppl buy condos in the city.

acolumb 7y ago

I've traveled to France a few times. Whenever I walk through the towns, I notice a sense of noncompetition and inclusivity amongst the school-aged children there. This social system eliminates the temporary high that one gets from their "15 minutes" of being the king of the American hill, while substantially decreasing the amount of depression and anger.

baroffoos 7y ago

I have been thinking about this recently. Suburbs are spaced out and empty and cities are loud and uncomfortable. I cant think of any public space I can just hang out around other than the library but that is a quiet space. Most public spaces are owned by businesses and they are designed to get you in and out as fast as possible while spending money the whole time. I wish there were indoor public spaces with comfortable seating and tables where you could just spend time at, meet people and meet with friends. Unfortunately such a space would cost a significant amount and only works if the government funds it entirely. I still think the benefit to society may be worth it.

edisonjoao 7y ago

Hey that's why I've built this! http://foxie.cool http://foxie.cool hope you can find some use in it.