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What does it feel like to be stupid? An anonymous Quora user explains.

521 points by zhyder 16y ago

jessor 16y ago
I no longer had the arrogance of being frustrated with slow people [...] I got on with people much better. I developed much more respect for one of my friends in particular who I always considered slow - it turned out he is much deeper than I thought, I just never had the patience to notice before. You could say I had more time to look around. Reads like the way to cure narcissism.
- epo 16y ago
  Yes, this happens to good looking people who lose their looks due to accident or age, the ones with nothing else find it devastating, the others (the lucky ones) find it a very sobering and saddening experience. Physical beauty is a wasting asset, present when you are least able to appreciate how valuable it is.
maxstoller 16y ago
Direct: http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid
deleted 16y ago
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endgame 16y ago
Wow, sounds like Flowers for Algernon in reverse. That would've been an interesting experience and I'm glad it was shared.
- CallMeV 16y ago
  Wish I could upvote this comment twice. Flowers for Algernon is one of the most moving stories I have ever read.
pinchyfingers 16y ago
I need regular confirmation that some people really are slower. My whole life, I've refused to really believe in intelligence. Although I loved the attention of being the 'smart kid', I've always insisted that I just liked reading and puzzles and things, and if anyone else spent as much time reading and writing as I did, they'd be pretty smart too. Of course, some people really don't like reading the kind of nonsense that I do and all the other stuff that comes with it, and it might be more than just preference. I might really enjoy slam-dunking basketballs if I just did it more, but there is a really good chance that its never gonna happen, no matter how much I try. This is a fact of life that I'm often unwilling to admit. I'm sure that contributes to the impatience a lot of people feel, we have very little empathy for people who don't comprehend and analyze the same way that we do. Where would that empathy come from? Analogous experience with slam dunks, maybe.
- TotlolRon 16y ago
  > I need regular confirmation that some people really are slower. Ask me daily. I'll confirm once a week.
  - tkahn6 16y ago
    SlownessReminder?
    - die_sekte 16y ago
      Someone calling you weekly and saying idiotic things? I wonder if anybody would pay for that, and, at the same time, whether that would be a sign of narcissism.
      - iron_ball 16y ago
        You don't neee a phone service to hear idiotic things. Turn on any TV political pundit or any reality show.
        16y ago
srbloom 16y ago
Can anyone with a medical background chime in on whether or not this is even possible?
- reason 16y ago
  Blood and vitamin B are two things your brain needs to function (blood for nutrients, and vitamin B for both nutrients and neurotransmitter production - acetylcholine, dopamine, gaba, serotonin, histamine), so I suppose such an effect is possible, although a lot of it could also be credited to the fear of dying.
- patio11 16y ago
  Diminished capacity is certainly possible. It has happened to me. I've had a few occasions where illness, drugs or both impaired me severely enough to scare me. (Scarier still was two occasions where I retained my faculties but had personality changes into someone unrecognizable as me, and I was aware of it but couldn't start being me any more than I can stop being me usually.) My mother had a stroke and for weeks afterward was under the impression that I was a nurse who she disliked. Our minds are very complex systems of chemical reactions. They work most of the time. There is weird, marvelous, scary stuff up there, and we barely understand any of it.
  - yters 16y ago
    I become noticeably stupider when staying up late and drinking lots of caffeine. But, I also believe that is when I come up with my best ideas.
- niels_olson 16y ago
  I'm a doctor. I'm not aware of any classic pathology that involves cerebral vasculature and vitamin B. There are some cerebral vasculitides that might initially be diagnosed as vitamin B deficiency, and vice versa. Quora user Lazlo B Tamas would be a good person to ask, though coincidentally he has already gave his answer to the question itself and didn't address this answer.
  - 16y ago
jaekwon 16y ago
compare with smoking pot daily for X years. also, can you train yourself to be smarter by forcing yourself into such a state, much like weight training or high altitude training?
- lotusleaf1987 16y ago
  Marijuana doesn't make you dumb permanently... Alcohol has far worse effects on the brain than marijuana, especially over the long term. Listen to Dr. Drew, he says it all the time.
  - grav1tas 16y ago
    I think he's means it as in compare it to someone who's stoned day in day out for X years, and then decides to quit and then their mental function returns to normal. Compare those two differences. Actually I don't think what he says contradicts anything you're saying.
  - Encosia 16y ago
    The last few studies I've seen on moderate alcohol use have concluded that its short-term effects on the brain aren't necessarily cumulative over the long term, as opposed to conventional wisdom.
    - Devilboy 16y ago
      That may be true but the way young people use alcohol is usually binge drinking rather than having one glass of wine daily
      - Encosia 16y ago
        By the same token, is there any reason to assume that someone who uses marijuana doesn't drink irresponsibly too? While I was in college, the two seemed pretty inseparable on average.
    - iregdtoreply 16y ago
TechNewb 16y ago
There are many definitions of stupid, but I would not classify speed as one of them. As a dyslexic I'm very slow at reading, but I can use technology to augment that slowness.
- grav1tas 16y ago
  I think he's meaning it more in the sense of "brightness" or quickness as in "mental agility". The idea is that some people are able to think and process things to a good conclusion more quickly than others on a consistent basis. It may not be so much that stupid people are slow, but rather intelligent people are fast.
  - ericd 16y ago
    Speed likely follows a normal curve, and "slow" just means the left side of the speed curve. Doesn't really make sense to say that there's no slow, there's only fast.
  - aik 16y ago
    I've heard it referred to as rapid cognition. I'd be very interested to see a study of the benefits of having a more rapid cognition vs. a slower. In most cases I believe I lean more towards an average speed of cognition, however I have no doubt my brain has multiple speeds (noticeably very rapid in various circumstances). I've been attempting to figure out how to unlock these more rapid moments "manually". As hinted at by the OP, there appears to be some significant negatives of having an always-rapid cognition. I've noticed this in a few of my friends who seem to operate consistently at that level - they tend to struggle in certain areas of their life, yet have amazing abilities to pick up and process and analyze information. What causes this? My thoughts: 1. It's lonely in a way (you feel left out). This causes psychological problems. 2. Arrogance is easier when you appear "smarter" than others and perhaps don't question yourself as much as someone who can admit there are smarter people in the world who naturally rethink things much more. 3. The speed could be a result of more efficient brain circuitry in general. Perhaps it's more efficient because it naturally skips "filters"/paths that "slower" thinkers naturally process everything through. So should more rapid cognition be considered a gift in as many cases as it is? Should we rethink whether there's a direct correlation between unusual rapid cognition (or speed of thought) and what we consider general intelligence? What exactly is missing in our general understanding of intelligence to allow people to slip through who have psychological/emotional issues that prevent them from making proper use of their cognition? What is the ideal state?
grav1tas 16y ago
I'm glad the author could take away the story of what it feels like to be slow vs quick. I'd probably be overly caught up on the "almost dying" aspect of the story to hover over much else, to be honest. It's great to see this level of introspection from people.
jalfrezzo 16y ago
>I had an arterial problem for a couple of years [..] this made me forgetful, slow, and easily overwhelmed Zoom out a bit. Everyone middle aged and above in our society is expected to have some degree of arterial plaque. Nowadays it is considered normal. Obesity and diabetes are on the rise. Doesn't this mean that many supposedly healthy people are already more slow and forgetful than need be?
- ori_b 16y ago
  It might, but at the same time, I doubt that the difference would be noticable if he only realized it once the doctors were puzzled at how he was alive.
- gwern 16y ago
  > Doesn't this mean that many supposedly healthy people are already more slow and forgetful than need be? Absolutely. I imagine that if you summed up the various nutritional and environmental factors that impact on IQ (iodine deficiency, lack of aerobic exercise, vegetables and fish, poor sleep hygiene, dual n-back training etc.) you would find that many supposedly healthy people could increase their IQ by a fair number of points (probably <10, though).
crazydiamond 16y ago
The title says stupid but the details are about slow and forgetful. Forgetful people can be quick witted and brilliant. I can tell your from personal experience that being stupid does not feel good especially when you know it. You never "get it" when others talk, you never have anything to say, you are always saying and doing the wrong things, or not doing what should have been done. I do agree there's a lot more to enjoy. One is not critical and cynical. I like a lot more people, food, music than my smarter siblings. I am very happy walking in parks, looking at trees, or petting animals. Life is simpler.
- andrewvc 16y ago
  Agreed. I think it's pretty hard to not know what it's like to feel stupid at least some of the time. Even most geniuses are 'stupid' in at least one area. Most of us have felt the sting of seeing a colleague, friend, or stranger pick up a challenging topic with enviable ease. The more interesting question is, what it's like to feel that way all the time. I suppose we all choose to associate mostly with those of approximately equal intelligence to ourselves, so we're probably mostly oblivious to our relative intelligence.
  - Gianteye 16y ago
    I've often considered myself a genius at being stupid. My stupidity aptitudes are staggering across all categories. Fortunately this has lead to some spectacular failures and the burden of knowledge that comes with. I think I've successfully managed to leverage my multiple stupidities effectively.
  - crazydiamond 16y ago
    Well, for one I know I'll never write any spectacular piece of software that will really make a difference. My only half-decent contributions were to port a library from one language to another. As you rise in rank, you are associating with people who are all of higher intelligence. I made whatever i could on dint of twice the effort and reading a lot more. I am fortunate I was able to save enough money since i reached a stage where I knew i could not continue to be employed. I was too old to be a continue at middle management, and too stupid to move to higher management. I've retired and lead a slow life living on savings. I do programming for fun, but no-brainer stuff. Sometimes I do think i am blessed with stupidity. Most intelligent people i know are miserable, spending their entire lives chasing wealth or becoming something to be happy.
forza 16y ago
Seems to me like these "effects" could have a lot more to do with a change of lifestyle and self image, rather than becoming "stupid".
rorrr 16y ago
One thing has been bothering me for years. What if I'm retarded and I don't know that? What if people around me pretend that I'm ok, being polite, or maybe I'm so retarded that I can't notice their reaction to me. I haven't been able to find an answer.
- dqh 16y ago
  Stop smoking weed, if that's what got you onto the idea
  - dqh 16y ago
    I mean that quite seriously, not sure if it came across right. I've seen weed induced paranoia cause people to fixate on these sorts of ideas.
- donaq 16y ago
  That seems like normal paranoia to me. :)
- GreenNight 16y ago
  This has bothered me from time to time for a long time too. It usually affects me most when I get to make other people do things I though they would not do for me. I've got no cure or definite answer for it. On the other hand I felt the same of my dancing abilities (and still do) but being praised(+) a lot by lots of people, some of them being international dancing figures, and one of my teachers - whom I find an excellent dancer - asking me to enter into her (not truly professional but important to her) dance company has made wonders to improve my self-image. Even though I feel clumsy from time to time, once a dance or so ;) So I guess trying to improve more in what you feel you do badly until everyone praises that aspect of you can help it. (+) I've got to say the praises where not about my technical level, but more about energy, fun and all the things that make a dance alive.
  - colanderman 16y ago
    > one of my teachers - whom I find an excellent dancer - asking me to enter into her (not truly professional but important to her) Dude, you've gotta find a better place for that aside...
nkurz 16y ago
I've had a similar experience. I got out of computer programming because I became ill with West Nile Virus and couldn't think well enough to continue. Even after I recovered from most of the physical aspects of the disease (approximately equal to having mono for a year) I was still unable to continue working on the relatively complex recommendations algorithms that I had been doing before. The math just made no sense to me. I consider myself generally intelligent and capable, and while ill I was definitely neither. I once failed twice in a row at following the directions to make instant mashed potatoes. It wasn't really a joke that a good day was keeping the toilet seat clean and remembering to flush. It's been about 5 years, and my health is mostly back to normal other than no longer being in decent physical shape. I'm currently doing non-computer work (http://screamsorbet.com http://screamsorbet.com) but I'm eager to someday get back to the programming problems I abandoned. Unlike the author of the article, I didn't find it made me happier. Perhaps it's a general personality issue, but it made me even more depressed. Books and movies were mostly beyond me, and there wasn't much I found to take any joy in. I presumed I would eventually recover (and think I have almost completely) but the overall feeling was one of intense mortality --- a dread of the eventual senility that will probably come with aging, and a realization that when it happens again it will likely be once and forever.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  If it's any consolation, my wife and I love scream sorbet :)
- astrofinch 16y ago
  "It wasn't really a joke that a good day was keeping the toilet seat clean and remembering to flush." It sounds as though your west nile had a stronger effect than the author's problems. Perhaps a person becomes happy insofar as their level of intelligence is closer to the population average. This makes sense if people are happy to the extent that they can relate to others.
  - nkurz 16y ago
    Probably, although that was at its worst. The recovery was a continuum spread over a couple years, so there were pretty long periods of mild impairment as well. I think you're probably right about happiness, but I didn't find that my impairment helped me relate to others. Even when well, I feel like I relate to most people in an 'emulation mode': a feedback loop of consciously gauging reactions and continually asking myself how my audience expects me to react. Being impaired just made this less effective and more stressful. The general feeling was similar to being sleep deprived and unable to focus. Small concepts felt very complicated and hard to grasp, but at the same time I constantly realized that I wasn't operating very well. I suppose if the effect was more like alcohol, where the impairment is more obvious to the audience than to the drinker, that there might be more of a pro-social effect. I'm not much of a fan of alcohol, though, so again this might be just a personality issue.
petercooper 16y ago
Most of the traits of "stupidity" raised in that piece (reduced arrogance, less anal retentiveness, enjoying obvious movies, patience, going off of sci-fi, being slower and more laid back) are all things I've recently noticed I've gained gradually over the last 10 years.. Early senile dementia? ;-)
- jamesbritt 16y ago
  Or maybe (as has been happening with me) a growing realization that life is too short to give a fuck about many things.
- neilk 16y ago
  Those aren't necessarily traits of slowness. It might indicate a heightened awareness of your senses and to the feelings of people around you. When I was younger I identified so much with my racing brain, it crowded out everything else. I couldn't even enjoy a flower, or art, or respond to the happiness of a small child.
- varjag 16y ago
  Alternatively, it's called growing up?
- CallMeV 16y ago
  No. Increasing maturity, empathy, tolerance and wisdom.
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alanh 16y ago
Meta: This, to me, is a fundamental problem with the Posterous culture. Here we have a post on a Posterous blog made by a Posterous co-founder which copies, in its entirety and with no significant commentary, a work published elsewhere. It’s attributed with a link to the source — barely, in lowercased, tiny font, at the bottom. The headline is a link to the Posterous page, not the source (unlike Daring Fireball “linked list” items, for example). How many people will actually follow the link? Why is this Posterous blog entry #1 on HN when a permalink to the original source on Quora is readily available? Let’s be clear. This is not “fair use.” It’s not plagiarism, as Garry doesn’t claim he wrote the anecdote; but it’s a violation of copyright. It’s publishing without permission of the copyright holder.† My first submission to Hacker News was an original item I posted to my own website. It got quite a few reads — but a lot of people were re-tweeting a link to a full copy of it hosted on someone else’s Posterous. That user didn’t add much (A sentence expressing “me, too”). I was conflicted: Glad people found my writing interesting enough to duplicate and share, but disappointed that they were reading it on someone else’s site for no good reason. I see now that if the company’s own bloggers consider copyright a joke, if they believe posting other people’s articles verbatim is kosher, well, can we be surprised their users do, too? (Postscript: This differs from Tumblr’s “re-blogging” in one important way: You only re-blog other Tumblr posts. “Re-blogging” is part of the Tumblr system. You expect it there if you post there. You don’t “lose” anything by it. I have no problem there.) † I don’t know if Quora’s terms of service mean that consent is implied, but honestly, in this case and this case only (the case of a Posterous employee), it doesn’t matter, because it’s about setting precedent for the community.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  You know what, you're absolutely right. So, let's provide the link to the original article: http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid/answers/157939 http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid/ans... It actually is simply a violation of copyright. Anything over 15 lines cited iirc. edit: fixed the link tx Alan!
  - jrockway 16y ago
    Following the terms of a license granted by the owner of the content is "simply a violation of copyright" now?
mkramlich 16y ago
I'd be curious to know if his political leaning shifted going into and out of his "stupid" period.
- ludwigvan 16y ago
  This is from the Woody Allen movie "Everyone Says I Love You": "Just after dinner... Scott suddenly collapsed. Everybody panicked. - There's no cause for alarm. There was a blockage in the artery, but it's been dissolved. - There's no problem? - No, he's fine. Our scan indicated that the condition began some time ago... so if he's shown any kind of strange or weird behaviour... It's because his brain wasn't getting enough oxygen. But as soon as his brain started functioning properly... Scott resigned from the Conservative Republican Club... and started espousing left-wing Democratic philosophy. Dad was overjoyed. Just as proud as can be." http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/e/everyone-says-i-love-you-script.html http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/e/everyone-says-i... This is the script, actual subtitles might be different.
moconnor 16y ago
Without wanting to detract from a fascinating read, s/stupid/high on C02/ is another interpretation.
CallMeV 16y ago
It often breaks my heart when some of my best friends and family reach the limits of their cognitive abilities and display all the intelligence of a Labrador. I love them all unconditionally nonetheless, even if they don't get half of my jokes or most of what I say in the course of the day.
- coconutrandom 16y ago
  I'm just happy they still love me unconditionally even though they don't get half of my jokes and of most of what I say during the day.
deleted 16y ago
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Supermighty 16y ago
> I just never had the patience to notice before. I think with a little patience and humility we can notice the deepness of our stupid friends, and relax enough to enjoy what we are doing without worrying.
lwhi 16y ago
What does it feel like to be different. The world isn't full of 'stupid' people and 'clever' people. The human race doesn't function on a linear spectrum; the full variety of personality types and abilities is far more diverse. Perhaps some people value their intelligence above all else, when other areas of their lives are lacking?
- lwhi 16y ago
  I don't mind being down-voted - because I believe it's dangerous to flippantly label some people as intellectually inferior. While it might sound idealistic - I believe everybody has something to offer. There are many types of 'intelligence' - and many personal qualities that are just as important as intelligence.
kmfrk 16y ago
You should read Flowers for Algernon[1]. It's a piece of fiction, but it's a great read and reference in discussions like these. The sad thing about being "stupid" is being unable to put your predicament into compelling writing. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=flowers+for+algernon&x=0&y=0 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap...
crazydiamond 16y ago
Another thing i can tell you about how it feels. You'll have to get used to being a loner. It's not hard to make friends since people find you to be open and simple. But then when you have nothing to say, they vanish. It's strange how ultimately friendship can be more about what the other person says rather than what the person is. However, one learns to accept this as how the world is, and there's no ill-feeling or depression associated with it.
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silverlake 16y ago
Intelligence is the ability to rationalize your stupid opinions. Dumb people just have opinions without the elaborate rationalizations. I prefer dumb people.
stcredzero 16y ago
This post reminds me of taking some classes with a certain professor of mine. Most of us in the class would regard ourselves as pretty bright, but this prof was a half step ahead of us. He had a habit of blurting out the answers to questions just as a bunch of us had gotten close to formulating the answer or had just opened our mouths to say it. I never thought he was mean spirited about it. He was just faster than us and a little impatient.
hugh3 16y ago
Reading this made me paranoid. "Wait, I enjoy walking in the park. Is it possible that I'm not as smart as I think I am? omg, maybe the blood supply to my brain is blocked!"
mcantor 16y ago
What this man did was find compassion for less intelligent people by becoming one. It is the habit of humans to condescend to less intelligent people, and to envy or undermine those who are smarter. Reaching across the boundaries of what is familiar to us and nurturing compassion there is difficult; this is a case where someone was forced to take a new perspective, and couldn't help but grow that compassion, because people who were previously so unfamiliar became uncannily like himself. I'm not trying to trivialize his journey; he just as easily could have spiraled into a feedback loop of self-hate and self-pity. It's admirable that he accepted the change within himself, and I enjoyed reading about how awestruck he was as he observed the emotional change within.
anthuswilliams 16y ago
I went through a period like this, and it was awful. Diabetes isn't a particularly rare illness, but I am the only one I know who has it, and I had no idea what symptoms to look for. Since it took a while for me to develop the good sense to check into an emergency room, I spent six months essentially insulin free, shedding muscle mass, water weight, gasping for breath, and exerting every ounce of energy I had to climb flights of stairs. I was basically incapable of complex reasoning because I couldn't expend the required mental energy. I did not become laid back or socially competent; instead, I was irritable and frustrated at my shortcomings. People could take advantage of me more easily. I generally stopped being interested in esoteric things of any sort. I don't think I derived anything of value from the loss of my mental acuity. One tangential benefit I did receive, however, from having DKA, was an increase in motivation and willpower. I had taken my health and cleverness for granted, and now it was slipping away, and I didn't know why. All I knew was that I wanted it back. I forced myself to slog through, to finish the CRM I was working on, and I started working out more. It didn't help me health-wise at the time, but now that my condition is being managed, I find I am much more aggressive and resourceful in the way I conduct my life.
takameyer 16y ago
I had a similar experience after recieving a concussion this summer. My memory was shot, I had to write everything down constantly. Basically it forced me to become more organized and really simplify my lifestyle. I was really close to getting burned out. It's been a rough trip, but I'm starting to get a good foundation built again. Learning to cut down my projects and not working like a dog has helped out immensely. I would not like to experience that handicap again, as I'm still often struggling with the effects.
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centiipede 16y ago
cure for aspergers?
capedape 16y ago
“Stupidity is infinitely more fascinating that intelligence. Intelligence has its limits while stupidity has none. To observe a profoundly stupid individual can be very enriching, and that’s why we should never feel contempt for them.” Claude Chabrol

521 points by zhyder 16y ago

I no longer had the arrogance of being frustrated with slow people [...] I got on with people much better. I developed much more respect for one of my friends in particular who I always considered slow - it turned out he is much deeper than I thought, I just never had the patience to notice before. You could say I had more time to look around. Reads like the way to cure narcissism.

epo 16y ago
Yes, this happens to good looking people who lose their looks due to accident or age, the ones with nothing else find it devastating, the others (the lucky ones) find it a very sobering and saddening experience. Physical beauty is a wasting asset, present when you are least able to appreciate how valuable it is.

maxstoller 16y ago

Direct: http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

endgame 16y ago

Wow, sounds like Flowers for Algernon in reverse. That would've been an interesting experience and I'm glad it was shared.

CallMeV 16y ago
Wish I could upvote this comment twice. Flowers for Algernon is one of the most moving stories I have ever read.

pinchyfingers 16y ago

I need regular confirmation that some people really are slower. My whole life, I've refused to really believe in intelligence. Although I loved the attention of being the 'smart kid', I've always insisted that I just liked reading and puzzles and things, and if anyone else spent as much time reading and writing as I did, they'd be pretty smart too. Of course, some people really don't like reading the kind of nonsense that I do and all the other stuff that comes with it, and it might be more than just preference. I might really enjoy slam-dunking basketballs if I just did it more, but there is a really good chance that its never gonna happen, no matter how much I try. This is a fact of life that I'm often unwilling to admit. I'm sure that contributes to the impatience a lot of people feel, we have very little empathy for people who don't comprehend and analyze the same way that we do. Where would that empathy come from? Analogous experience with slam dunks, maybe.

TotlolRon 16y ago
> I need regular confirmation that some people really are slower. Ask me daily. I'll confirm once a week.
- tkahn6 16y ago
  SlownessReminder?
  - die_sekte 16y ago
    Someone calling you weekly and saying idiotic things? I wonder if anybody would pay for that, and, at the same time, whether that would be a sign of narcissism.
    - iron_ball 16y ago
      You don't neee a phone service to hear idiotic things. Turn on any TV political pundit or any reality show.
      - 16y ago

srbloom 16y ago

Can anyone with a medical background chime in on whether or not this is even possible?

reason 16y ago
Blood and vitamin B are two things your brain needs to function (blood for nutrients, and vitamin B for both nutrients and neurotransmitter production - acetylcholine, dopamine, gaba, serotonin, histamine), so I suppose such an effect is possible, although a lot of it could also be credited to the fear of dying.
patio11 16y ago
Diminished capacity is certainly possible. It has happened to me. I've had a few occasions where illness, drugs or both impaired me severely enough to scare me. (Scarier still was two occasions where I retained my faculties but had personality changes into someone unrecognizable as me, and I was aware of it but couldn't start being me any more than I can stop being me usually.) My mother had a stroke and for weeks afterward was under the impression that I was a nurse who she disliked. Our minds are very complex systems of chemical reactions. They work most of the time. There is weird, marvelous, scary stuff up there, and we barely understand any of it.
- yters 16y ago
  I become noticeably stupider when staying up late and drinking lots of caffeine. But, I also believe that is when I come up with my best ideas.
niels_olson 16y ago
I'm a doctor. I'm not aware of any classic pathology that involves cerebral vasculature and vitamin B. There are some cerebral vasculitides that might initially be diagnosed as vitamin B deficiency, and vice versa. Quora user Lazlo B Tamas would be a good person to ask, though coincidentally he has already gave his answer to the question itself and didn't address this answer.
- 16y ago

jaekwon 16y ago

compare with smoking pot daily for X years. also, can you train yourself to be smarter by forcing yourself into such a state, much like weight training or high altitude training?

lotusleaf1987 16y ago
Marijuana doesn't make you dumb permanently... Alcohol has far worse effects on the brain than marijuana, especially over the long term. Listen to Dr. Drew, he says it all the time.
- grav1tas 16y ago
  I think he's means it as in compare it to someone who's stoned day in day out for X years, and then decides to quit and then their mental function returns to normal. Compare those two differences. Actually I don't think what he says contradicts anything you're saying.
- Encosia 16y ago
  The last few studies I've seen on moderate alcohol use have concluded that its short-term effects on the brain aren't necessarily cumulative over the long term, as opposed to conventional wisdom.
  - Devilboy 16y ago
    That may be true but the way young people use alcohol is usually binge drinking rather than having one glass of wine daily
    - Encosia 16y ago
      By the same token, is there any reason to assume that someone who uses marijuana doesn't drink irresponsibly too? While I was in college, the two seemed pretty inseparable on average.
  - iregdtoreply 16y ago

TechNewb 16y ago

There are many definitions of stupid, but I would not classify speed as one of them. As a dyslexic I'm very slow at reading, but I can use technology to augment that slowness.

grav1tas 16y ago
I think he's meaning it more in the sense of "brightness" or quickness as in "mental agility". The idea is that some people are able to think and process things to a good conclusion more quickly than others on a consistent basis. It may not be so much that stupid people are slow, but rather intelligent people are fast.
- ericd 16y ago
  Speed likely follows a normal curve, and "slow" just means the left side of the speed curve. Doesn't really make sense to say that there's no slow, there's only fast.
- aik 16y ago
  I've heard it referred to as rapid cognition. I'd be very interested to see a study of the benefits of having a more rapid cognition vs. a slower. In most cases I believe I lean more towards an average speed of cognition, however I have no doubt my brain has multiple speeds (noticeably very rapid in various circumstances). I've been attempting to figure out how to unlock these more rapid moments "manually". As hinted at by the OP, there appears to be some significant negatives of having an always-rapid cognition. I've noticed this in a few of my friends who seem to operate consistently at that level - they tend to struggle in certain areas of their life, yet have amazing abilities to pick up and process and analyze information. What causes this? My thoughts: 1. It's lonely in a way (you feel left out). This causes psychological problems. 2. Arrogance is easier when you appear "smarter" than others and perhaps don't question yourself as much as someone who can admit there are smarter people in the world who naturally rethink things much more. 3. The speed could be a result of more efficient brain circuitry in general. Perhaps it's more efficient because it naturally skips "filters"/paths that "slower" thinkers naturally process everything through. So should more rapid cognition be considered a gift in as many cases as it is? Should we rethink whether there's a direct correlation between unusual rapid cognition (or speed of thought) and what we consider general intelligence? What exactly is missing in our general understanding of intelligence to allow people to slip through who have psychological/emotional issues that prevent them from making proper use of their cognition? What is the ideal state?

grav1tas 16y ago

I'm glad the author could take away the story of what it feels like to be slow vs quick. I'd probably be overly caught up on the "almost dying" aspect of the story to hover over much else, to be honest. It's great to see this level of introspection from people.

jalfrezzo 16y ago

>I had an arterial problem for a couple of years [..] this made me forgetful, slow, and easily overwhelmed Zoom out a bit. Everyone middle aged and above in our society is expected to have some degree of arterial plaque. Nowadays it is considered normal. Obesity and diabetes are on the rise. Doesn't this mean that many supposedly healthy people are already more slow and forgetful than need be?

ori_b 16y ago
It might, but at the same time, I doubt that the difference would be noticable if he only realized it once the doctors were puzzled at how he was alive.
gwern 16y ago
> Doesn't this mean that many supposedly healthy people are already more slow and forgetful than need be? Absolutely. I imagine that if you summed up the various nutritional and environmental factors that impact on IQ (iodine deficiency, lack of aerobic exercise, vegetables and fish, poor sleep hygiene, dual n-back training etc.) you would find that many supposedly healthy people could increase their IQ by a fair number of points (probably <10, though).

crazydiamond 16y ago

The title says stupid but the details are about slow and forgetful. Forgetful people can be quick witted and brilliant. I can tell your from personal experience that being stupid does not feel good especially when you know it. You never "get it" when others talk, you never have anything to say, you are always saying and doing the wrong things, or not doing what should have been done. I do agree there's a lot more to enjoy. One is not critical and cynical. I like a lot more people, food, music than my smarter siblings. I am very happy walking in parks, looking at trees, or petting animals. Life is simpler.

andrewvc 16y ago
Agreed. I think it's pretty hard to not know what it's like to feel stupid at least some of the time. Even most geniuses are 'stupid' in at least one area. Most of us have felt the sting of seeing a colleague, friend, or stranger pick up a challenging topic with enviable ease. The more interesting question is, what it's like to feel that way all the time. I suppose we all choose to associate mostly with those of approximately equal intelligence to ourselves, so we're probably mostly oblivious to our relative intelligence.
- Gianteye 16y ago
  I've often considered myself a genius at being stupid. My stupidity aptitudes are staggering across all categories. Fortunately this has lead to some spectacular failures and the burden of knowledge that comes with. I think I've successfully managed to leverage my multiple stupidities effectively.
- crazydiamond 16y ago
  Well, for one I know I'll never write any spectacular piece of software that will really make a difference. My only half-decent contributions were to port a library from one language to another. As you rise in rank, you are associating with people who are all of higher intelligence. I made whatever i could on dint of twice the effort and reading a lot more. I am fortunate I was able to save enough money since i reached a stage where I knew i could not continue to be employed. I was too old to be a continue at middle management, and too stupid to move to higher management. I've retired and lead a slow life living on savings. I do programming for fun, but no-brainer stuff. Sometimes I do think i am blessed with stupidity. Most intelligent people i know are miserable, spending their entire lives chasing wealth or becoming something to be happy.

forza 16y ago

Seems to me like these "effects" could have a lot more to do with a change of lifestyle and self image, rather than becoming "stupid".

rorrr 16y ago

One thing has been bothering me for years. What if I'm retarded and I don't know that? What if people around me pretend that I'm ok, being polite, or maybe I'm so retarded that I can't notice their reaction to me. I haven't been able to find an answer.

dqh 16y ago
Stop smoking weed, if that's what got you onto the idea
- dqh 16y ago
  I mean that quite seriously, not sure if it came across right. I've seen weed induced paranoia cause people to fixate on these sorts of ideas.
donaq 16y ago
That seems like normal paranoia to me. :)
GreenNight 16y ago
This has bothered me from time to time for a long time too. It usually affects me most when I get to make other people do things I though they would not do for me. I've got no cure or definite answer for it. On the other hand I felt the same of my dancing abilities (and still do) but being praised(+) a lot by lots of people, some of them being international dancing figures, and one of my teachers - whom I find an excellent dancer - asking me to enter into her (not truly professional but important to her) dance company has made wonders to improve my self-image. Even though I feel clumsy from time to time, once a dance or so ;) So I guess trying to improve more in what you feel you do badly until everyone praises that aspect of you can help it. (+) I've got to say the praises where not about my technical level, but more about energy, fun and all the things that make a dance alive.
- colanderman 16y ago
  > one of my teachers - whom I find an excellent dancer - asking me to enter into her (not truly professional but important to her) Dude, you've gotta find a better place for that aside...

nkurz 16y ago

I've had a similar experience. I got out of computer programming because I became ill with West Nile Virus and couldn't think well enough to continue. Even after I recovered from most of the physical aspects of the disease (approximately equal to having mono for a year) I was still unable to continue working on the relatively complex recommendations algorithms that I had been doing before. The math just made no sense to me. I consider myself generally intelligent and capable, and while ill I was definitely neither. I once failed twice in a row at following the directions to make instant mashed potatoes. It wasn't really a joke that a good day was keeping the toilet seat clean and remembering to flush. It's been about 5 years, and my health is mostly back to normal other than no longer being in decent physical shape. I'm currently doing non-computer work (http://screamsorbet.com http://screamsorbet.com) but I'm eager to someday get back to the programming problems I abandoned. Unlike the author of the article, I didn't find it made me happier. Perhaps it's a general personality issue, but it made me even more depressed. Books and movies were mostly beyond me, and there wasn't much I found to take any joy in. I presumed I would eventually recover (and think I have almost completely) but the overall feeling was one of intense mortality --- a dread of the eventual senility that will probably come with aging, and a realization that when it happens again it will likely be once and forever.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
If it's any consolation, my wife and I love scream sorbet :)
astrofinch 16y ago
"It wasn't really a joke that a good day was keeping the toilet seat clean and remembering to flush." It sounds as though your west nile had a stronger effect than the author's problems. Perhaps a person becomes happy insofar as their level of intelligence is closer to the population average. This makes sense if people are happy to the extent that they can relate to others.
- nkurz 16y ago
  Probably, although that was at its worst. The recovery was a continuum spread over a couple years, so there were pretty long periods of mild impairment as well. I think you're probably right about happiness, but I didn't find that my impairment helped me relate to others. Even when well, I feel like I relate to most people in an 'emulation mode': a feedback loop of consciously gauging reactions and continually asking myself how my audience expects me to react. Being impaired just made this less effective and more stressful. The general feeling was similar to being sleep deprived and unable to focus. Small concepts felt very complicated and hard to grasp, but at the same time I constantly realized that I wasn't operating very well. I suppose if the effect was more like alcohol, where the impairment is more obvious to the audience than to the drinker, that there might be more of a pro-social effect. I'm not much of a fan of alcohol, though, so again this might be just a personality issue.

petercooper 16y ago

Most of the traits of "stupidity" raised in that piece (reduced arrogance, less anal retentiveness, enjoying obvious movies, patience, going off of sci-fi, being slower and more laid back) are all things I've recently noticed I've gained gradually over the last 10 years.. Early senile dementia? ;-)

jamesbritt 16y ago
Or maybe (as has been happening with me) a growing realization that life is too short to give a fuck about many things.
neilk 16y ago
Those aren't necessarily traits of slowness. It might indicate a heightened awareness of your senses and to the feelings of people around you. When I was younger I identified so much with my racing brain, it crowded out everything else. I couldn't even enjoy a flower, or art, or respond to the happiness of a small child.
varjag 16y ago
Alternatively, it's called growing up?
CallMeV 16y ago
No. Increasing maturity, empathy, tolerance and wisdom.

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alanh 16y ago

Meta: This, to me, is a fundamental problem with the Posterous culture. Here we have a post on a Posterous blog made by a Posterous co-founder which copies, in its entirety and with no significant commentary, a work published elsewhere. It’s attributed with a link to the source — barely, in lowercased, tiny font, at the bottom. The headline is a link to the Posterous page, not the source (unlike Daring Fireball “linked list” items, for example). How many people will actually follow the link? Why is this Posterous blog entry #1 on HN when a permalink to the original source on Quora is readily available? Let’s be clear. This is not “fair use.” It’s not plagiarism, as Garry doesn’t claim he wrote the anecdote; but it’s a violation of copyright. It’s publishing without permission of the copyright holder.† My first submission to Hacker News was an original item I posted to my own website. It got quite a few reads — but a lot of people were re-tweeting a link to a full copy of it hosted on someone else’s Posterous. That user didn’t add much (A sentence expressing “me, too”). I was conflicted: Glad people found my writing interesting enough to duplicate and share, but disappointed that they were reading it on someone else’s site for no good reason. I see now that if the company’s own bloggers consider copyright a joke, if they believe posting other people’s articles verbatim is kosher, well, can we be surprised their users do, too? (Postscript: This differs from Tumblr’s “re-blogging” in one important way: You only re-blog other Tumblr posts. “Re-blogging” is part of the Tumblr system. You expect it there if you post there. You don’t “lose” anything by it. I have no problem there.) † I don’t know if Quora’s terms of service mean that consent is implied, but honestly, in this case and this case only (the case of a Posterous employee), it doesn’t matter, because it’s about setting precedent for the community.

jacquesm 16y ago
You know what, you're absolutely right. So, let's provide the link to the original article: http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid/answers/157939 http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid/ans... It actually is simply a violation of copyright. Anything over 15 lines cited iirc. edit: fixed the link tx Alan!
- jrockway 16y ago
  Following the terms of a license granted by the owner of the content is "simply a violation of copyright" now?

mkramlich 16y ago

I'd be curious to know if his political leaning shifted going into and out of his "stupid" period.

ludwigvan 16y ago
This is from the Woody Allen movie "Everyone Says I Love You": "Just after dinner... Scott suddenly collapsed. Everybody panicked. - There's no cause for alarm. There was a blockage in the artery, but it's been dissolved. - There's no problem? - No, he's fine. Our scan indicated that the condition began some time ago... so if he's shown any kind of strange or weird behaviour... It's because his brain wasn't getting enough oxygen. But as soon as his brain started functioning properly... Scott resigned from the Conservative Republican Club... and started espousing left-wing Democratic philosophy. Dad was overjoyed. Just as proud as can be." http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/e/everyone-says-i-love-you-script.html http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/e/everyone-says-i... This is the script, actual subtitles might be different.

moconnor 16y ago

Without wanting to detract from a fascinating read, s/stupid/high on C02/ is another interpretation.

CallMeV 16y ago

It often breaks my heart when some of my best friends and family reach the limits of their cognitive abilities and display all the intelligence of a Labrador. I love them all unconditionally nonetheless, even if they don't get half of my jokes or most of what I say in the course of the day.

coconutrandom 16y ago
I'm just happy they still love me unconditionally even though they don't get half of my jokes and of most of what I say during the day.

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Supermighty 16y ago

> I just never had the patience to notice before. I think with a little patience and humility we can notice the deepness of our stupid friends, and relax enough to enjoy what we are doing without worrying.

lwhi 16y ago

What does it feel like to be different. The world isn't full of 'stupid' people and 'clever' people. The human race doesn't function on a linear spectrum; the full variety of personality types and abilities is far more diverse. Perhaps some people value their intelligence above all else, when other areas of their lives are lacking?

lwhi 16y ago
I don't mind being down-voted - because I believe it's dangerous to flippantly label some people as intellectually inferior. While it might sound idealistic - I believe everybody has something to offer. There are many types of 'intelligence' - and many personal qualities that are just as important as intelligence.

kmfrk 16y ago

You should read Flowers for Algernon[1]. It's a piece of fiction, but it's a great read and reference in discussions like these. The sad thing about being "stupid" is being unable to put your predicament into compelling writing. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=flowers+for+algernon&x=0&y=0 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap...

crazydiamond 16y ago

Another thing i can tell you about how it feels. You'll have to get used to being a loner. It's not hard to make friends since people find you to be open and simple. But then when you have nothing to say, they vanish. It's strange how ultimately friendship can be more about what the other person says rather than what the person is. However, one learns to accept this as how the world is, and there's no ill-feeling or depression associated with it.

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silverlake 16y ago

Intelligence is the ability to rationalize your stupid opinions. Dumb people just have opinions without the elaborate rationalizations. I prefer dumb people.

stcredzero 16y ago

This post reminds me of taking some classes with a certain professor of mine. Most of us in the class would regard ourselves as pretty bright, but this prof was a half step ahead of us. He had a habit of blurting out the answers to questions just as a bunch of us had gotten close to formulating the answer or had just opened our mouths to say it. I never thought he was mean spirited about it. He was just faster than us and a little impatient.

hugh3 16y ago

Reading this made me paranoid. "Wait, I enjoy walking in the park. Is it possible that I'm not as smart as I think I am? omg, maybe the blood supply to my brain is blocked!"

mcantor 16y ago

What this man did was find compassion for less intelligent people by becoming one. It is the habit of humans to condescend to less intelligent people, and to envy or undermine those who are smarter. Reaching across the boundaries of what is familiar to us and nurturing compassion there is difficult; this is a case where someone was forced to take a new perspective, and couldn't help but grow that compassion, because people who were previously so unfamiliar became uncannily like himself. I'm not trying to trivialize his journey; he just as easily could have spiraled into a feedback loop of self-hate and self-pity. It's admirable that he accepted the change within himself, and I enjoyed reading about how awestruck he was as he observed the emotional change within.

anthuswilliams 16y ago

I went through a period like this, and it was awful. Diabetes isn't a particularly rare illness, but I am the only one I know who has it, and I had no idea what symptoms to look for. Since it took a while for me to develop the good sense to check into an emergency room, I spent six months essentially insulin free, shedding muscle mass, water weight, gasping for breath, and exerting every ounce of energy I had to climb flights of stairs. I was basically incapable of complex reasoning because I couldn't expend the required mental energy. I did not become laid back or socially competent; instead, I was irritable and frustrated at my shortcomings. People could take advantage of me more easily. I generally stopped being interested in esoteric things of any sort. I don't think I derived anything of value from the loss of my mental acuity. One tangential benefit I did receive, however, from having DKA, was an increase in motivation and willpower. I had taken my health and cleverness for granted, and now it was slipping away, and I didn't know why. All I knew was that I wanted it back. I forced myself to slog through, to finish the CRM I was working on, and I started working out more. It didn't help me health-wise at the time, but now that my condition is being managed, I find I am much more aggressive and resourceful in the way I conduct my life.

takameyer 16y ago

I had a similar experience after recieving a concussion this summer. My memory was shot, I had to write everything down constantly. Basically it forced me to become more organized and really simplify my lifestyle. I was really close to getting burned out. It's been a rough trip, but I'm starting to get a good foundation built again. Learning to cut down my projects and not working like a dog has helped out immensely. I would not like to experience that handicap again, as I'm still often struggling with the effects.

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centiipede 16y ago

cure for aspergers?

capedape 16y ago

“Stupidity is infinitely more fascinating that intelligence. Intelligence has its limits while stupidity has none. To observe a profoundly stupid individual can be very enriching, and that’s why we should never feel contempt for them.” Claude Chabrol