6 ms·

From the release notes: "Parchment and vellum are made from animal skin so change material composition and color for spellbooks with those descriptions from pap

by Anchor 7y ago

From the release notes: "Parchment and vellum are made from animal skin so change material composition and color for spellbooks with those descriptions from paper to leather; eating those books now breaks vegetarian conduct" (emphasis mine) There is something heartwarming about the attention to detail in some games. NetHack, Dwarf Fortress, ... I wish more games would be made with this mindset. Many modern games seem to overemphasize the "gaming" aspect, and sometimes forget the "playing" with all its joyful intricacies.

chobobro 7y ago
I find that games that have that amazing intricacy are often passion projects by one developer or a very small team and have been in development for a long time, often decades. Besides NetHack and Dwarf Fortress, I would highly recommend Factorio to anyone with an interest in any kind of engineering and Aurora 4x to anyone who played Stellaris or other space 4x but wants an insane amount of complexity
- dmos62 7y ago
  Thanks! This thread is a treasure trove of recommendations.
- logicprog 7y ago
  I would classify Stellaris itself as having an insane amount of complexity, but compared to DF, NetHack and especially Aurora 4x, it is nothing!
- cwingrav 7y ago
  Love those games too. Rimworld is the latest in my opinion. All the fun of Factorio and Dwarf Fortress plus a fairly good UI and space faring feel. Wasted/played too many hours. Make sure to use mods too. On steam.
  - WalterGR 7y ago
    > Make sure to use mods too. Which?
    - cwingrav 7y ago
      Just search "rimworld mods" and you'll find lots of people talking about which to use. Most are quality of life improvements.
  - earenndil 7y ago
    Personally, I could never get into rimworld because I didn't know what to do. Never /really/ got into DF either, but despite the awful UI it seemed much more like something that could really suck you in, that was really engrossing and fun to play.
- nineteen999 7y ago
  I'm going to mention "Oxygen not included" which I believe is by the same people as "Don't Starve". Power, gas and liquid flow has to be regulated across your entire base and it always eventually gets out of hand a bit like Dwarf Fortress. Either you run out of oxygen or are drowning in CO2 or Natural Gas, or your power sources are consumed before you can harness another one and everything grinds to a halt.
logicprog 7y ago
Caves of Qud[1] is an amazing continuation of the NetHack/DF tradition in a modern game: incredible depth and attention to detail not only in it's mechanics and rules, but also in it's coherent worldbuilding and dialogue. It's also got a really great interface and cool, ZX Spectrum like graphics. The setting is a lot like Gamma World, or if you don't know what that is, post-apocalyptic Dune but with more pulp sci-fi (and chrome). Caves of Qud is still in active development, and available on Steam. If you do get it, make sure to go into the menus and enable the experimental UI if you want to see how awesome a Roguelike interface could be if it used graphics. Also, if you're like me disable Permadeath in the debug menu, the first village you start at is the only non-procedurally-generated village in the game, so if I you don't want to retraverse it over and over, you need savegames. Here's a Guide: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484204201 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=48420... [1]: https://steamcommunity.com/app/333640 https://steamcommunity.com/app/333640
- shrimp_emoji 7y ago
  Caves of Qud is my favorite roguelike, hands down. It's like a mechanically-streamlined Crawl with fantastic writing and worldbuilding. I'm 400 hours in but I still haven't beat the main quest. (But I also suck.) >The setting is a lot like Gamma World, or if you don't know what that is, post-apocalyptic Dune but with more pulp sci-fi (and chrome). Or a grittier, LSDier Adventure Time
  - mruts 7y ago
    My favorite strat is taking domination and beguil. And then I choose my pokemon and level them up into a ferocious swoll monster.
    - logicprog 7y ago
      Muwahahah! Perfect. I'll try that next time I play.
    - jdormit 7y ago
      This is hands down the best way to play CoQ. And it really speaks a lot to the depth of the game that you can play the whole thing hopping from mind-controlled character to mind-controlled character and the gameplay just adapts...
haolez 7y ago
I prefer this one: > Hero poly'd into rope golem form could choke headless or non-breathing monsters Amazing level of detail!
- ImJasonH 7y ago
  Ooh, choking an ettin should do double damage then!
- legohead 7y ago
  > In Nethack, I’ve polymorphed myself into a cockatrice, layed cockatrice eggs, polymorphed back, picked them up (with gloves on) and used them as hand grenades of petrification. > And to complete the chain of "the dev team thinks of everything": There's a luck penalty for breaking eggs you laid. > The number of ways you can solve any specific problem is just ridiculous. I also love that a lot of them are pun based. (i.e., to make a quick escape you could drink a cursed potion of gain level, which will cause you to float up through the ceiling to the previous dungeon level instead of increasing your experience level, or removing cursed levitation boots by floating over a sink - which causes you to sink to the ground).
  - anentropic 7y ago
    I am curious about the techniques used by the code to cover all these bases i.e. how much can be done from clever rules, how much has to be exhaustively enumerated, special cases etc
    - fb03 7y ago
      exhaustively enumerated. i mean. a lot. you should dive into the Nethack source code. It's really well organized but in monster behavior code (mon.c), it's an 'if'-fest :)
      - philsnow 7y ago
        Nethack was the first large C codebase I ever got familiar with / tinkered with, and honestly I think it did some damage. I mean it's great for what it is -- an organic codebase that evolved over decades (so there's a lot of performance/memory optimizations that make the code somewhat less clear like a lot of bitwise operations) and targeted a dizzying array of platforms (so there's a million #ifdefs that you have to climb through, many of them nested) and also compilers (so there's a legacy of really short file and function names that decrease clarity as well). The attention to details is truly inspiring. But as a codebase, it's a mess. On the other hand, Brogue [0]'s code is very clear and enjoyable to read. [0] https://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/ https://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/

by Anchor 7y ago

chobobro 7y ago

I find that games that have that amazing intricacy are often passion projects by one developer or a very small team and have been in development for a long time, often decades. Besides NetHack and Dwarf Fortress, I would highly recommend Factorio to anyone with an interest in any kind of engineering and Aurora 4x to anyone who played Stellaris or other space 4x but wants an insane amount of complexity

dmos62 7y ago
Thanks! This thread is a treasure trove of recommendations.
logicprog 7y ago
I would classify Stellaris itself as having an insane amount of complexity, but compared to DF, NetHack and especially Aurora 4x, it is nothing!
cwingrav 7y ago
Love those games too. Rimworld is the latest in my opinion. All the fun of Factorio and Dwarf Fortress plus a fairly good UI and space faring feel. Wasted/played too many hours. Make sure to use mods too. On steam.
- WalterGR 7y ago
  > Make sure to use mods too. Which?
  - cwingrav 7y ago
    Just search "rimworld mods" and you'll find lots of people talking about which to use. Most are quality of life improvements.
- earenndil 7y ago
  Personally, I could never get into rimworld because I didn't know what to do. Never /really/ got into DF either, but despite the awful UI it seemed much more like something that could really suck you in, that was really engrossing and fun to play.
nineteen999 7y ago
I'm going to mention "Oxygen not included" which I believe is by the same people as "Don't Starve". Power, gas and liquid flow has to be regulated across your entire base and it always eventually gets out of hand a bit like Dwarf Fortress. Either you run out of oxygen or are drowning in CO2 or Natural Gas, or your power sources are consumed before you can harness another one and everything grinds to a halt.

logicprog 7y ago

Caves of Qud[1] is an amazing continuation of the NetHack/DF tradition in a modern game: incredible depth and attention to detail not only in it's mechanics and rules, but also in it's coherent worldbuilding and dialogue. It's also got a really great interface and cool, ZX Spectrum like graphics. The setting is a lot like Gamma World, or if you don't know what that is, post-apocalyptic Dune but with more pulp sci-fi (and chrome). Caves of Qud is still in active development, and available on Steam. If you do get it, make sure to go into the menus and enable the experimental UI if you want to see how awesome a Roguelike interface could be if it used graphics. Also, if you're like me disable Permadeath in the debug menu, the first village you start at is the only non-procedurally-generated village in the game, so if I you don't want to retraverse it over and over, you need savegames. Here's a Guide: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484204201 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=48420... [1]: https://steamcommunity.com/app/333640 https://steamcommunity.com/app/333640

shrimp_emoji 7y ago
Caves of Qud is my favorite roguelike, hands down. It's like a mechanically-streamlined Crawl with fantastic writing and worldbuilding. I'm 400 hours in but I still haven't beat the main quest. (But I also suck.) >The setting is a lot like Gamma World, or if you don't know what that is, post-apocalyptic Dune but with more pulp sci-fi (and chrome). Or a grittier, LSDier Adventure Time
- mruts 7y ago
  My favorite strat is taking domination and beguil. And then I choose my pokemon and level them up into a ferocious swoll monster.
  - logicprog 7y ago
    Muwahahah! Perfect. I'll try that next time I play.
  - jdormit 7y ago
    This is hands down the best way to play CoQ. And it really speaks a lot to the depth of the game that you can play the whole thing hopping from mind-controlled character to mind-controlled character and the gameplay just adapts...

haolez 7y ago

I prefer this one: > Hero poly'd into rope golem form could choke headless or non-breathing monsters Amazing level of detail!

ImJasonH 7y ago
Ooh, choking an ettin should do double damage then!
legohead 7y ago
> In Nethack, I’ve polymorphed myself into a cockatrice, layed cockatrice eggs, polymorphed back, picked them up (with gloves on) and used them as hand grenades of petrification. > And to complete the chain of "the dev team thinks of everything": There's a luck penalty for breaking eggs you laid. > The number of ways you can solve any specific problem is just ridiculous. I also love that a lot of them are pun based. (i.e., to make a quick escape you could drink a cursed potion of gain level, which will cause you to float up through the ceiling to the previous dungeon level instead of increasing your experience level, or removing cursed levitation boots by floating over a sink - which causes you to sink to the ground).
- anentropic 7y ago
  I am curious about the techniques used by the code to cover all these bases i.e. how much can be done from clever rules, how much has to be exhaustively enumerated, special cases etc
  - fb03 7y ago
    exhaustively enumerated. i mean. a lot. you should dive into the Nethack source code. It's really well organized but in monster behavior code (mon.c), it's an 'if'-fest :)
    - philsnow 7y ago
      Nethack was the first large C codebase I ever got familiar with / tinkered with, and honestly I think it did some damage. I mean it's great for what it is -- an organic codebase that evolved over decades (so there's a lot of performance/memory optimizations that make the code somewhat less clear like a lot of bitwise operations) and targeted a dizzying array of platforms (so there's a million #ifdefs that you have to climb through, many of them nested) and also compilers (so there's a legacy of really short file and function names that decrease clarity as well). The attention to details is truly inspiring. But as a codebase, it's a mess. On the other hand, Brogue [0]'s code is very clear and enjoyable to read. [0] https://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/ https://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/