7 ms·
Come on people. We don't have a lot of information to judge on. But if we are having a debate about the meaning of rape, then we are all side stepping the incre
by ralfn 7y ago
Come on people. We don't have a lot of information to judge on. But if we are having a debate about the meaning of rape, then we are all side stepping the incredible high chance this is politically motivated nonsense.
Nobody had ever been extradited for this sort of thing. Sweden is special in that it enabled it based on a testimony, even after the testimony has been revoked and without the victims pressing charges or even agreeing with the interpretation of the police.
This is not an example of the legal system taking too much liberty of the notion of rape. This is much more likely an example of state level conspiracy.
Men are not under threat, sharing potentially incriminating information about the USA just means that nobody is playing by any rules.
Don't embarrass yourself or others to have this debate about rape. As an academic exercise, sure go ahead, but this case does not prove that rape laws in Sweden are used unfairly. It just proves Sweden, like most smaller Western nation's have little choice but do what the big man in Washington whispers in their ears.
This also does not prove Assange is guilt free. But at least if we want to maintain any illusion that we live in a free world: he is a deserved a court case about the actual actions that are fuelling this hunt.
So please just don't use the word rape and Assange in the same sentence. It's a disservice to actual victims, whistle blowers and our cultural identity as such.
- vkou 7y ago> So please just don't use the word rape and Assange in the same sentence. It's a disservice to actual victims, whistle blowers and our cultural identity as such. What would you call having sex without a condom with a sleeping person, whom you barely know, when they have not consented to it? Sorta-rape? Kinda-rape? Minor hooliganism? Did we all forget what the point of consent is, or something? Or are we using the medieval definition, where it is a one-time-good-for-life sort of thing?
- kenneth 7y agoI think the issue had more to do with not using a condom (with the explicit non-consent of the two women) than with the sex (for which he mostly had consent)
- rayiner 7y agoWhat the fuck is “mostly having consent” for sex?
- kenneth 7y agoIn the case of Miss A, he had reluctant consent. In the case of Miss W, he had consent for sex, but not explicit consent to initiate sex while sleeping. The thing that both of these women reportedly felt violated by was his disregard for their explicit request to use a condom.
- sweeneyrod 7y ago"not explicit consent to initiate sex while sleeping" In other words, he had sex with someone without the capacity to consent, which is rape.
- raxxorrax 7y agoI think you are correct with everything but... > maintain any illusion that we live in a free world That would require the crimes betrayed through the leaked information to have consequences. There also needs to be more control exercised on people responsible, that this cannot happen again. Otherwise, you could skip this trial as well.
- empath75 7y agoIf it were about what America wants, why wouldn’t they just let America extradite him? They already have an extradition request in.
- HatchedLake721 7y agoUnited Kingdom does not extradite people subject to death penalty.
- JoeSmithson 7y agoThis is because of the ECHR, which Sweden is also subject to.
- swish_bob 7y agoYes and no. The Extradition Act explicitly prevents extradition of individuals who might face the death penalty. The ECHR _also_ protects people facing the death penalty.
- Godel_unicode 7y agoThat hardly applies in this case. The much more relevant restriction is that the Bush-era US-UK extradition treaty doesn't allow for extradition for "political crimes", usually interpreted as espionage, treason, etc. This is in turn why he's being charged instead with conspiracy to hack a computer, which is likely not a political crime as the term of art is used in extradition cases.
- plandis 7y agoNeither does Sweden and what the US is charging Assange with wouldn’t warrant the death penalty anyways.
- onetimemanytime 7y agoA non-issue, USA will guarantee in writing that will not face the death penalty in a trial. USA has done it many times, including for El Chapo.
- PJDK 7y agoWhat makes you think no one has been extradited for this sort of thing? According to the EU there were over 16000 warrants issued in 2015 (the latest number I could find)[0]. And way back in 2009 we were worrying about how easy arrest warrants could be attained and that Poland might be getting extradition happy - going after chicken thieves.[1] Assange is certainly deserving of his day in court - he's the one who did everything in his power to avoid it! [0] https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_european_arrest_warrant-90-en.do https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_european_arrest_warrant-... [1] https://www.economist.com/britain/2009/12/30/wanted-for-chicken-rustling https://www.economist.com/britain/2009/12/30/wanted-for-chic...
- blub 7y ago16000 warrants for people having sex with their sleeping sex partner without a condom? Did those 16000 also enjoy 16 million pounds of police surveillance and an international man hunt? This is great news. If we continue to invest so much effort in solving the slightest hint of sexual inappropriateness we'll completely eliminate sexual crimes. Perhaps even sex itself.
- DanielleMolloy 7y agoAlso, Ecuador is right now preparing to send all his belongings to the US (not the UK, not Sweden - the US): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19899168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19899168 ..what a curious case of a "rape prosecution".
- peeters 7y agoWhat makes you think that has anything to do with the "rape prosecution"? The U.S. is not hiding the fact that they're seeking Assange's extradition on conspiracy charges. Don't see what this has to do with the allegations from Sweden.
- PJDK 7y ago16000 people going through these fairly mundane bit of EU legal procedures. Some of them will have done worse things, but many of them will have done much less worse things (like the aforementioned chicken theft. What international manhunt? Man runs into embassy escaping bail - police wait outside. What other outcome could there have been?
- yellowapple 7y ago> It just proves Sweden, like most smaller Western nation's have little choice but do what the big man in Washington whispers in their ears. Does it, though? I got the opposite impression: that Sweden is potentially willing to go against US interests and compete for Assange's extradition. It's possible their plan is to convict Assange and then extradite him to the US, but who knows?