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The text of the laws themselves are open-source. It's the annotations that are the issue and this is, at least, an area where there is a reasonable ambiguity. H
by stupidcar 7y ago
The text of the laws themselves are open-source. It's the annotations that are the issue and this is, at least, an area where there is a reasonable ambiguity. Hopefully one that will be resolved in favour of greatest openness, but the state's position is at least not totally unreasonable.
What is unreasonable, and why this is getting attention on HN is because Malamud's actions in publish the annotations has been described as "terrorism". Perhaps this is just one boneheaded lawyer speaking carelessly, but maybe it's a deliberate attempt to conflate political activism, which may often involve breaking the law or defying authority in a harmless way in pursuit of a political goal, with terrorism, which involves breaking the law in a violent or dangerous way for the same ends. It's important that such a distinction is kept, and the state cannot depict any and all political motivated misbehaviour as "terrorism"
- kevin_b_er 7y agoUnofficial versions of the law are available, somewhat. The only official version of the law is the annotated one. Thus the only official law is deemed secret without payment by the state. Thus you cannot know the true law in Georgia without paying. Not to mention the official annotations are considered authoritative. Lawyer and judges reference them, making them part of the law.
- rayiner 7y agoLawyers and judges reference a huge variety of materials in their opinions. That doesn’t make all those reference materials “part of the law.” These annotations do not appear to be essential to understanding the law. They appear to be explanatory aids.
- moefh 7y ago> These annotations do not appear to be essential to understanding the law At least 3 judges disagree with this (quoted from the article): > “The annotations clearly have authoritative weight in explicating and establishing the meaning and effect of Georgia’s laws,” Judge Stanley Marcus wrote for a unanimous three-judge panel of the court
- rayiner 7y agoThe Eleventh Circuit’s decision turns more on the annotations being published under the authority of the State than the fact that judges and lawyers “reference” them. Courts routinely reference the Restatements, for example, but those are private works.
- moefh 7y agoTo an outsider like me, this situation seems bizarre; please correct me if this is wrong, but... It seems like you're arguing that it's reasonable to keep these annotations private because it's already impossible to understand the law without other stuff that is private, not because these annotations are not essential to understanding the law.
- rayiner 7y agoYou’re starting from a premise that doesn’t really work. In a common law system, you can’t completely “understand” the law. You guess at what the law requires, the judge evaluates the law in the context of what you did, and renders judgment based on everything from other judges’ opinions to statistical studies to the judge’s moral sensibilities. For example, we are currently debating in the US whether our workplace discrimination law covers discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Erudite analysis has been written espousing both sides of that issue. Can you say you “understand” that law? Yet, people are expected to follow it. The relevant distinction is between what sources are binding and what sources are not. The statutory text is binding. Case law in the same jurisdiction is binding. The annotations produced by a private company, or private scholarship published in a treatise, are not binding.
- moefh 7y agoThank you for explaining, that makes a lot of sense. What's surprising is not that it's very hard to understand the law; it's big and messy and evolving. What's surprising is that in practice one has to pay money to even try to understand what the experts are talking about. It's impossible to find all the relevant texts to study in a library, for example. That seems deeply undesirable; it exacerbates the problem you described of people being expected to follow the law when they can't possibly understand it.
- richardwhiuk 7y agoHe sounds like he himself described them as terrorism, and is now getting accused of them being such....
- magashna 7y agoAren't these annotations paid for with taxes? If so, it belongs to the people
- colejohnson66 7y agoThere’s exceptions. It’s how JBL keeps its stuff secret even though it’s funded by NASA
- amyjess 7y ago> What is unreasonable, and why this is getting attention on HN is because Malamud's actions in publish the annotations has been described as "terrorism". He described his own actions as "terrorism", and the state is throwing that back in his face by basically going "See, even he called it 'terrorism'! That means he knew what he was doing was wrong!"
- whoopdedo 7y agoEarlier in that essay he talked about a "coup". So I suppose he should be charged with insurrection as well.
- amyjess 7y agoWell, that's the thing. He's not being charged with terrorism. They're just throwing his self-description back in his face as a rhetorical device, to persuade a judge or jury that he knew what he was doing was wrong. It's really petty and juvenile for them to do this, but they aren't making an actual allegation of terrorism.
- politician 7y agoAre these annotations more than summaries of and links to related court findings?