7 ms·

I'm really depressed about climate change. There is no way to fix this from an individual point of view. Society is impossibly reliant on fossil fuels. Individu

by ux-app 7y ago

I'm really depressed about climate change. There is no way to fix this from an individual point of view. Society is impossibly reliant on fossil fuels. Individuals going vegan, reducing consumption etc will have negligible effect. The only possible solution to all this is a technological solution that requires zero sacrifice from individuals. Technology got us into this mess, If we don't find a technological solution to this issue then all is lost. A true tragedy of the commons.

SiempreViernes 7y ago
Dude, political action is possible, you just have to care enough to take part of it. Please, try to at least be honest enough to openly admit you don't care about climate change out of convenience for yourself.
- ux-app 7y ago
  > Please, try to at least be honest enough to openly admit you don't care about climate change out of convenience for yourself. yes, it's true, I can't see myself going back to a pre-industrial quality of life for the sake of climate change, and be honest, neither can you. The resources used to produce the computer you typed your comment on probably equates to 50 years of resource consumption of someone from 1500AD. Not to mention your phone, car, earphones, public transport, roads, electricity, air conditioning, heating, Netflix, Youtube, datacenters, air travel, grocery shopping, insane supply chain that made your $50 Levis possible etc. etc. Add in billions of people who are aspiring to your level of affluence + billions more who will be born who will fight tooth and nail to experience the luxury of Netlix and chill and you see we are fucked. There is no way out of this and no amount of tree hugging will make things better. Joe average wants his SUV, cheap jeans and Happy Meal. Fuck you if you get in his way. It's a whirlpool of catastrophe and you can't get out of it even if you tried. Technology will save us or the species is finished. >political action is possible Your "Save the Whales" badge is part of the problem (literally, plastic + metal pin produced in a third world country). Your political banners and TV adverts are part of the problem. All by products of fossil fuels.
  - SiempreViernes 7y ago
    Since apparently dishonest characterisation of strangers is how you want this thread to go: Can you please at least take your big oil astroturfing money quietly? I'm sure the Trump campaign will be a bit disappointed you don't turn up to their rallies, but as long as you stay home and use the money to order more cheetos they'll be fine with it.
    - ux-app 7y ago
      > I'm sure the Trump campaign will be a bit disappointed you don't turn up to their rallies, settle down, i'm not some right wing climate change denier. My point is that yours (and my) entire existence is dependent on a whole chain of environment decimating externalities. Simply existing in modern society makes you complicit in the destruction of the planet. Ever eaten an avocado in winter? yup you just did your little bit to kill the planet. And even if you completely went off grid, zero carbon, neanderthal level of self deprivation to earn your environmentalist eagle scout badge, then guess what? The world is literally brimming with people who don't give a fuck and will vote out any politician who even thinks about raising power bills by 0.001% for the sake of climate change. Add to that the billions who still aspire to the luxury of a flushing toilet let alone the luxury of being an eco warrior from behind a $2000 Macbook and you see... we are fucked. Unless of course some clever silicon valley nerd comes up with a way to capture carbon, sequester it, provide clean energy for the 4 billion people who are clamouring to get out of poverty. Nah, more money to be made from ad networks and ride sharing apps I guess.
      - dang 7y ago
        Please don't get personal in comments, even if someone else is breaking the site guidelines. Two wrongs don't make a right, &c. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - syndacks 7y ago
    Hey just wanted to say that I like your style of writing. It's funny and spot on. It's actually much much more compelling to read your voice than the "inconvenient truth" style. For all the people down voting, I suggest considering this voice as a weapon in the fight against climate change. It might be salty but there's virtue in it.
- dang 7y ago
  You went into personal attack here and got vicious downthread. That's not allowed on HN, regardless of how large a concern is or how strongly you feel about it. If we don't moderate this strictly, the community will destroy itself, so we moderate this strictly. That means banning accounts that post like this, so please don't post like this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
jussij 7y ago
The first step to doing something about climate change is to vote for a political party that actually believes in climate change.
- ux-app 7y ago
  > vote for a political party that actually believes in climate change. hahahahahaha ooooh boy, that is some grade A wishful thinking. Here's a thought... try to convince the average Joe to not turn on his air conditioning on a hot day "for the environment". see how that goes. We are a selfish species that deserves to go extinct. Have you ever considered that?
  - antocv 7y ago
    Its even worse than that. If "we" are not a selfish species, say 99% are really good, and would shut off the AC, say no to meat, wish to ban plastics etc... The 1%, can and would destroy and burn the planet. Remember, BP oil spill in the Gulf? Thats just one. On a global scale, the few hundreds of millions, and of those dozens, are burning the planet, despite the billions who do not. The destructive capacity of the few far outwidth the constructive capacity of the many.
  - jussij 7y ago
    > Have you ever considered that? The problem is not the air condition or the electricity needed to run the air conditioner. The problem is the electricity was generated by burning a fossil fuel and that causes massive amounts of CO2 pollution. So the solution is quite simple. Just tax, and tax hard any electricity producer that is creating CO2 pollution. What will happen is for a short time Joe's electricity bill will go up and he will put his air con on low. But in the longer term market forces will quickly find ways to make electricity without producing CO2 just so that they can sell cheaper electricity to Joe and have him once again cranking up his air con to full. Right now there is no real cost to creating CO2 pollution so of course there is no incentive to stop producing CO2.
    - ux-app 7y ago
_ph_ 7y ago
You are wrong. As long as one is living in a democracy, it is very easy for the individual to change things. To fight climate change, we mainly have to get rid of carbon fuels for electricity production and for transport. Except for flying, there are carbon-free replacements for both, which require no sacrifices from individuals. Keep pushing for them.
- ux-app 7y ago
  >You are wrong. I hope so.
novaRom 7y ago
Technology alone is not enough. Every 12 to 15 years we are adding 1 billion people more. We expect 9 billion people around 2050. More air pollution, water pollution, soil contamination, less forests, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation#Effects_of_human_overpopulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation#Effects_o...
- ux-app 7y ago
  > Technology alone is not enough I hope that technology will save us, but if not then we are finished. If tech can't save us from ourselves then the only sane thing left to do is to wring every last bit of enjoyment from our fossil dependent lives before it all disappears forever. Eat a burger, drive a Cadillac, leave your lights on, enjoy your imported beer and set off your imported fireworks because expecting Johhny average to put off his iPhone upgrade is down right delusional. We're all going to hell together, yee haw.
  - kaybe 7y ago
    There's still levels, you know.. just because we maybe can't make 1.5°C does not mean we shouldn't aim for 2°C, or even 3°C, this is lower than what we could do.
  - hi5eyes 7y ago
    yee haw brother
perfunctory 7y ago
> There is no way to fix this from an individual point of view. individual actions ALONE will not fix the problem, but they might be necessary to encourage broader societal change. Apparently it only takes 3.5% of the population to take an active stance on something to cause a change (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=YJSehRlU34w https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=YJSehRlU34w). Don't feel discouraged to adjust your lifestyle just because the effect is "negligible".
- ux-app 7y ago
  > individual actions ALONE will not fix the problem, but they might be necessary to encourage broader societal change If there are ever enough bleeding heart, average, first world, wealthy (by global standards), vegan converts who will "encourage broader societal change" then I will eat my hat. I'll eat a whole shop full of hats. A billion dirt poor Bangladeshis would kill you and your whole family for the luxury of having a hotdog and a flip phone. They don't give a shit about you and your vegan burger, or that you switched you whole house to LED lights because they're 82% more efficient. That's why we're fucked. To curtail global climate change you would first need to forgo all modern luxuries and then wipe all third world countries from the map. good luck with that.
  - perfunctory 7y ago
    I understand your frustration. Believe me, I used to feel the same. But just because a Bangladeshis would kill me or you for our luxury doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do something about it. And you know, now when I started changing my lifestyle I feel much better about myself, and yes there is nothing wrong about that. p.s. this kind of charts give me hope https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-03/impossible-burgers-beyond-meat-on-the-menu-for-gen-z-at-college https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-03/impossibl... It might be too little too late, but at least we can say we tried.
    - ux-app 7y ago
      > And you know, now when I started changing my lifestyle I feel much better about myself This is self-flagellation and sorry, but it does nothing and has no impact on the bigger picture.
mrhappyunhappy 7y ago
I’m guessing millions of people feel the way you do. I certainly do. My wife was really depressed about climate change to the point where she saw no reason for living. It took us a long time, moving countries and changing everything about our lives for her to move on from that feeling. Now, I’m the one who feels hopeless. It feels like a lost cause.
diafygi 7y ago
I used to also be depressed about climate change, but then I got a job in the clean energy sector. Waking up every day and getting paid to fight climate change feels really good. It has really turned my depression into hope. I'd like to encourage you to take a look and see what you can find about career opportunities in the clean energy sector. You may be surprised at how many software and tech jobs there are (it's a fast growing space).
glerk 7y ago
Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

by ux-app 7y ago

SiempreViernes 7y ago

Dude, political action is possible, you just have to care enough to take part of it. Please, try to at least be honest enough to openly admit you don't care about climate change out of convenience for yourself.

ux-app 7y ago
> Please, try to at least be honest enough to openly admit you don't care about climate change out of convenience for yourself. yes, it's true, I can't see myself going back to a pre-industrial quality of life for the sake of climate change, and be honest, neither can you. The resources used to produce the computer you typed your comment on probably equates to 50 years of resource consumption of someone from 1500AD. Not to mention your phone, car, earphones, public transport, roads, electricity, air conditioning, heating, Netflix, Youtube, datacenters, air travel, grocery shopping, insane supply chain that made your $50 Levis possible etc. etc. Add in billions of people who are aspiring to your level of affluence + billions more who will be born who will fight tooth and nail to experience the luxury of Netlix and chill and you see we are fucked. There is no way out of this and no amount of tree hugging will make things better. Joe average wants his SUV, cheap jeans and Happy Meal. Fuck you if you get in his way. It's a whirlpool of catastrophe and you can't get out of it even if you tried. Technology will save us or the species is finished. >political action is possible Your "Save the Whales" badge is part of the problem (literally, plastic + metal pin produced in a third world country). Your political banners and TV adverts are part of the problem. All by products of fossil fuels.
- SiempreViernes 7y ago
  Since apparently dishonest characterisation of strangers is how you want this thread to go: Can you please at least take your big oil astroturfing money quietly? I'm sure the Trump campaign will be a bit disappointed you don't turn up to their rallies, but as long as you stay home and use the money to order more cheetos they'll be fine with it.
  - ux-app 7y ago
    > I'm sure the Trump campaign will be a bit disappointed you don't turn up to their rallies, settle down, i'm not some right wing climate change denier. My point is that yours (and my) entire existence is dependent on a whole chain of environment decimating externalities. Simply existing in modern society makes you complicit in the destruction of the planet. Ever eaten an avocado in winter? yup you just did your little bit to kill the planet. And even if you completely went off grid, zero carbon, neanderthal level of self deprivation to earn your environmentalist eagle scout badge, then guess what? The world is literally brimming with people who don't give a fuck and will vote out any politician who even thinks about raising power bills by 0.001% for the sake of climate change. Add to that the billions who still aspire to the luxury of a flushing toilet let alone the luxury of being an eco warrior from behind a $2000 Macbook and you see... we are fucked. Unless of course some clever silicon valley nerd comes up with a way to capture carbon, sequester it, provide clean energy for the 4 billion people who are clamouring to get out of poverty. Nah, more money to be made from ad networks and ride sharing apps I guess.
    - dang 7y ago
      Please don't get personal in comments, even if someone else is breaking the site guidelines. Two wrongs don't make a right, &c. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- syndacks 7y ago
  Hey just wanted to say that I like your style of writing. It's funny and spot on. It's actually much much more compelling to read your voice than the "inconvenient truth" style. For all the people down voting, I suggest considering this voice as a weapon in the fight against climate change. It might be salty but there's virtue in it.
dang 7y ago
You went into personal attack here and got vicious downthread. That's not allowed on HN, regardless of how large a concern is or how strongly you feel about it. If we don't moderate this strictly, the community will destroy itself, so we moderate this strictly. That means banning accounts that post like this, so please don't post like this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

jussij 7y ago

The first step to doing something about climate change is to vote for a political party that actually believes in climate change.

ux-app 7y ago
> vote for a political party that actually believes in climate change. hahahahahaha ooooh boy, that is some grade A wishful thinking. Here's a thought... try to convince the average Joe to not turn on his air conditioning on a hot day "for the environment". see how that goes. We are a selfish species that deserves to go extinct. Have you ever considered that?
- antocv 7y ago
  Its even worse than that. If "we" are not a selfish species, say 99% are really good, and would shut off the AC, say no to meat, wish to ban plastics etc... The 1%, can and would destroy and burn the planet. Remember, BP oil spill in the Gulf? Thats just one. On a global scale, the few hundreds of millions, and of those dozens, are burning the planet, despite the billions who do not. The destructive capacity of the few far outwidth the constructive capacity of the many.
- jussij 7y ago
  > Have you ever considered that? The problem is not the air condition or the electricity needed to run the air conditioner. The problem is the electricity was generated by burning a fossil fuel and that causes massive amounts of CO2 pollution. So the solution is quite simple. Just tax, and tax hard any electricity producer that is creating CO2 pollution. What will happen is for a short time Joe's electricity bill will go up and he will put his air con on low. But in the longer term market forces will quickly find ways to make electricity without producing CO2 just so that they can sell cheaper electricity to Joe and have him once again cranking up his air con to full. Right now there is no real cost to creating CO2 pollution so of course there is no incentive to stop producing CO2.
  - ux-app 7y ago

_ph_ 7y ago

You are wrong. As long as one is living in a democracy, it is very easy for the individual to change things. To fight climate change, we mainly have to get rid of carbon fuels for electricity production and for transport. Except for flying, there are carbon-free replacements for both, which require no sacrifices from individuals. Keep pushing for them.

ux-app 7y ago
>You are wrong. I hope so.

novaRom 7y ago

Technology alone is not enough. Every 12 to 15 years we are adding 1 billion people more. We expect 9 billion people around 2050. More air pollution, water pollution, soil contamination, less forests, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation#Effects_of_human_overpopulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation#Effects_o...

ux-app 7y ago
> Technology alone is not enough I hope that technology will save us, but if not then we are finished. If tech can't save us from ourselves then the only sane thing left to do is to wring every last bit of enjoyment from our fossil dependent lives before it all disappears forever. Eat a burger, drive a Cadillac, leave your lights on, enjoy your imported beer and set off your imported fireworks because expecting Johhny average to put off his iPhone upgrade is down right delusional. We're all going to hell together, yee haw.
- kaybe 7y ago
  There's still levels, you know.. just because we maybe can't make 1.5°C does not mean we shouldn't aim for 2°C, or even 3°C, this is lower than what we could do.
- hi5eyes 7y ago
  yee haw brother

perfunctory 7y ago

> There is no way to fix this from an individual point of view. individual actions ALONE will not fix the problem, but they might be necessary to encourage broader societal change. Apparently it only takes 3.5% of the population to take an active stance on something to cause a change (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=YJSehRlU34w https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=YJSehRlU34w). Don't feel discouraged to adjust your lifestyle just because the effect is "negligible".

ux-app 7y ago
> individual actions ALONE will not fix the problem, but they might be necessary to encourage broader societal change If there are ever enough bleeding heart, average, first world, wealthy (by global standards), vegan converts who will "encourage broader societal change" then I will eat my hat. I'll eat a whole shop full of hats. A billion dirt poor Bangladeshis would kill you and your whole family for the luxury of having a hotdog and a flip phone. They don't give a shit about you and your vegan burger, or that you switched you whole house to LED lights because they're 82% more efficient. That's why we're fucked. To curtail global climate change you would first need to forgo all modern luxuries and then wipe all third world countries from the map. good luck with that.
- perfunctory 7y ago
  I understand your frustration. Believe me, I used to feel the same. But just because a Bangladeshis would kill me or you for our luxury doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do something about it. And you know, now when I started changing my lifestyle I feel much better about myself, and yes there is nothing wrong about that. p.s. this kind of charts give me hope https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-03/impossible-burgers-beyond-meat-on-the-menu-for-gen-z-at-college https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-03/impossibl... It might be too little too late, but at least we can say we tried.
  - ux-app 7y ago
    > And you know, now when I started changing my lifestyle I feel much better about myself This is self-flagellation and sorry, but it does nothing and has no impact on the bigger picture.

mrhappyunhappy 7y ago

I’m guessing millions of people feel the way you do. I certainly do. My wife was really depressed about climate change to the point where she saw no reason for living. It took us a long time, moving countries and changing everything about our lives for her to move on from that feeling. Now, I’m the one who feels hopeless. It feels like a lost cause.

diafygi 7y ago

I used to also be depressed about climate change, but then I got a job in the clean energy sector. Waking up every day and getting paid to fight climate change feels really good. It has really turned my depression into hope. I'd like to encourage you to take a look and see what you can find about career opportunities in the clean energy sector. You may be surprised at how many software and tech jobs there are (it's a fast growing space).

glerk 7y ago

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.