6 ms·

Begin Japanology – Name Seals / Hanko (2006) [video]

CaliforniaKarl 7y ago
I posted this because I find it interesting as a form of authentication, compared to a signature. Especially with one person having multiple seals, for different purposes.
- thwg 7y ago
  A few years ago there was a case in China. Someone forged documents in the name of a mayor, using a seal with the mayor's name on it. The authorities later found it fake because the mayor used a different seal design. (Just a random detail in a complicated lawsuit.) It would have been difficult if nobody else had seen his real seal though.
  - bruxis 7y ago
    For important hanko seals used in Japan (for business, loans, etc.) they are registered with the local ward office so that wouldn't be an issue.
- asutekku 7y ago
  This system is far from perfect though. For example: Forget the hanko home? Too bad, you’re sol. Have an generic surname? Be ready to pay for an unique hanko, because the generic ones are sold at minimum for 100¥. Live as an foreigner in japan? Prepare to write your signature again, again and again as the government official requires all the signatures to look exactly the same. It’s also easily copyable if you know how the other person’s hanko looks like. I’m just hoping japanese would move into hand written / electronic authentications. They are much harder to fake and you are not restricted by a small item which you may not always have with you.
  - wst_ 7y ago
    As a foreigner you still can make yourself a hanko - just use katakana. You should, even, as there are places (although only few) that won't accept your signature. You can stamp it everywhere, if you want, but honestly? It is much more convenient to just sign wherever you can. Sometimes they will ask you if you have a hanko and would prefer it, but if you don't they would still accept signature.
- johnwalkr 7y ago
  I can't watch this because I'm in Japan and its geoblocked but hanko can be convenient. - you can leave a hanko with an authorized person to sign on your behalf (eg when you're a CEO traveling abroad). - you can unregister your hanko if it's stolen - as you said you can have multiple hanko for various purposes. For large purposes like buying a house, it will be verified against the hanko the you registered in your city On the other hand, - if it wears out or part of it breaks, OCR algorithms can flag your hanko stamp and stop a basic transaction. - As a foreigner, you have the right to sign instead of use a hanko, but in use for banking or whatever, it is run through the same hanko verification OCR algorithms, meaning your transactions using signatures are sometimes flagged due to 2 slightly different signatures - A stolen hanko is a real liability risk (this is why you should not use your banking hanko for accepting packages, etc, but rather use a separate one)
  - zeeZ 7y ago
    > I can't watch this because I'm in Japan and its geoblocked but hanko can be convenient. - you can leave a hanko with an authorized person to sign on your behalf (eg when you're a CEO traveling abroad). - you can unregister your hanko if it's stolen - as you said you can have multiple hanko for various purposes. For large purposes like buying a house, it will be verified against the hanko the you registered in your city > As a foreigner, you have the right to sign instead of use a hanko, but in use for banking or whatever, it is run through the same hanko verification OCR algorithms, meaning your transactions using signatures are sometimes flagged due to 2 slightly different signatures As someone who was required to sign something at the post office and literally sent home to practice their signature until it resembles one on an almost 10 years old ID, I thing I'd prefer a stamp. I would not get anything done.
throw0101a 7y ago
Beware! Beware! Beware of the time sink that is watching "Begin Japanology" episodes!
- reustle 7y ago
  For those of you ready to fall down this rabbit hole, I've created this just for you: http://Japanology.tv http://Japanology.tv Pull requests / data updates welcome :)
- stareatgoats 7y ago
  Too late, my friend, too late. There are few things more satisfying than to listen to Peter Barakan calmly explaining some quaint Japanese phenomenon like the history of pens, or the importance of lunch boxes, etc. The world regains its balance, there is order in the universe after all ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begin_Japanology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begin_Japanology
- searine 7y ago
  [Hello my name is Peter Barakan Intensifies]
  - jayd16 7y ago
    >I've heard a lot about -- and I'm going to do it, right now
    - barbs 7y ago
      One time I emailed him asking if he'd record a personalised wedding message to my friends, and he did!
- vanadium 7y ago
  Gah, I've seen altogether dozens and dozens of hours of this show, to the point where I was hunting down "lost" or hard to find episodes. Barakan is a treasure.
- JoeDaDude 7y ago
glandium 7y ago
Ironically, in Japan, the video is geo-blocked by Sony Music Entertainment Japan: この動画には Sony Music Entertainment (Japan) Inc. さんのコンテンツが含まれており、お住まいの地域では著作権上の問題で権利所有者によりブロックされています。
franciscop 7y ago
A friend made a list of all the Begin Japanology chapters. An incredible time sink, but amazing nonetheless: http://japanology.tv/ http://japanology.tv/
drderidder 7y ago
It used to be a commonplace (and interesting) to see Japanese people frequently take out their stamp for anything requiring a "signature" but in recent years I really haven't seen it happening much. I was always able to use a signature on any official document and I think this has become a much more acceptable form of verification for Japanese people nowadays. Also, it's a shame those episodes are geoblocked in Japan since some of the people who'd most enjoy and benefit from them are people who're visiting Japan for an extended period.
- kipchak 7y ago
  I'm no expert but I think they're still fairly commonly used in China. There's a rather popular small cheap 40w laser engraver (3020) sold on sites like Alibaba designed for stamp making that's become fairly popular elsewhere for hobbyist usage.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
amyjess 7y ago
I really want one of these. I hate signing my name. I never sign anything the same way twice, and it's always a random scribble. I've actually gotten into fights with my bank over this, and before my landlord switched to electronic signatures, signing my lease every year was a huge chore due to the number of signatures involved. Maybe if I'm lucky, the first part of the scribble will look vaguely like the left half of a cursive A, but it falls apart after that. The only area where I'm consistent at all is my initials: I always write my initials as a ligature, as my initials are AJB, which easily link up. [0] So I really envy that the Japanese can just drop down a stamp and be done with it. I've actually been considering having a custom seal made for me, either using my initials ligature (see [0]) or possibly with my name written in Japanese. I should explain the latter: I decided a while back that if I ever need to write my name in Japanese, instead of rendering my name in katakana [1], I'd use a Japanese name that has similar sound/meaning to my own [2]. [0] The main one I use, and an alternative I've been experimenting with https://i.imgur.com/Z30PLre.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Z30PLre.jpg [1] Amy Book -> エイミー・ブック [2] 本えみ <- 本 is the kanji for "Book", and in my name I prefer to read it as もと (Moto), and えみ is Emi (written in hiragana, which is a syllabary that carries no semantic meaning), a fairly common Japanese name that sounds similar to Amy.
- mring33621 7y ago
  When I was a kid, I worked at Office Warehouse (now Staples or whatever bought them). We sold lots of 'Signature Stamps', which were simply a custom-made rubber stamp with your signature on it. IIRC, the customers that bought them were business owners who needed to sign lots of checks. I'm pretty sure this was both normal and considered legal in the US.
- wst_ 7y ago
  If you have no Japanese roots I'd rather avoid using kanji and name semantics. Names don't have any meaning and different spelling than one on your official documents may lead to confusion. Only if you ever want to use it legally, of course. If it's just for kicks, then, by all means, go ahead.
- bruxis 7y ago
  It's not clear by this comment if you live in Japan, but if you do, it's quite common to have a hanko even for foreign names (custom made, of course, ~￥1000+). If you live in the US, signature seals are quite uncommon but probably acceptable. That said, carrying around a seal (and sometimes forgetting it) is not particularly fun.
Animats 7y ago
Docusign partnered with a Japanese manufacturer of hanko to create an authentication device.[1] That was in 2015. What happened to that? It seemed a nice way to package up 2-factor authentication. [1] https://www.docusign.com/press-releases/docusign-and-shachihata-to-bring-hanko-into-the-digital-age https://www.docusign.com/press-releases/docusign-and-shachih...

I posted this because I find it interesting as a form of authentication, compared to a signature. Especially with one person having multiple seals, for different purposes.

thwg 7y ago
A few years ago there was a case in China. Someone forged documents in the name of a mayor, using a seal with the mayor's name on it. The authorities later found it fake because the mayor used a different seal design. (Just a random detail in a complicated lawsuit.) It would have been difficult if nobody else had seen his real seal though.
- bruxis 7y ago
  For important hanko seals used in Japan (for business, loans, etc.) they are registered with the local ward office so that wouldn't be an issue.
asutekku 7y ago
This system is far from perfect though. For example: Forget the hanko home? Too bad, you’re sol. Have an generic surname? Be ready to pay for an unique hanko, because the generic ones are sold at minimum for 100¥. Live as an foreigner in japan? Prepare to write your signature again, again and again as the government official requires all the signatures to look exactly the same. It’s also easily copyable if you know how the other person’s hanko looks like. I’m just hoping japanese would move into hand written / electronic authentications. They are much harder to fake and you are not restricted by a small item which you may not always have with you.
- wst_ 7y ago
  As a foreigner you still can make yourself a hanko - just use katakana. You should, even, as there are places (although only few) that won't accept your signature. You can stamp it everywhere, if you want, but honestly? It is much more convenient to just sign wherever you can. Sometimes they will ask you if you have a hanko and would prefer it, but if you don't they would still accept signature.
johnwalkr 7y ago
I can't watch this because I'm in Japan and its geoblocked but hanko can be convenient. - you can leave a hanko with an authorized person to sign on your behalf (eg when you're a CEO traveling abroad). - you can unregister your hanko if it's stolen - as you said you can have multiple hanko for various purposes. For large purposes like buying a house, it will be verified against the hanko the you registered in your city On the other hand, - if it wears out or part of it breaks, OCR algorithms can flag your hanko stamp and stop a basic transaction. - As a foreigner, you have the right to sign instead of use a hanko, but in use for banking or whatever, it is run through the same hanko verification OCR algorithms, meaning your transactions using signatures are sometimes flagged due to 2 slightly different signatures - A stolen hanko is a real liability risk (this is why you should not use your banking hanko for accepting packages, etc, but rather use a separate one)
- zeeZ 7y ago
  > I can't watch this because I'm in Japan and its geoblocked but hanko can be convenient. - you can leave a hanko with an authorized person to sign on your behalf (eg when you're a CEO traveling abroad). - you can unregister your hanko if it's stolen - as you said you can have multiple hanko for various purposes. For large purposes like buying a house, it will be verified against the hanko the you registered in your city > As a foreigner, you have the right to sign instead of use a hanko, but in use for banking or whatever, it is run through the same hanko verification OCR algorithms, meaning your transactions using signatures are sometimes flagged due to 2 slightly different signatures As someone who was required to sign something at the post office and literally sent home to practice their signature until it resembles one on an almost 10 years old ID, I thing I'd prefer a stamp. I would not get anything done.

throw0101a 7y ago

Beware! Beware! Beware of the time sink that is watching "Begin Japanology" episodes!

reustle 7y ago
For those of you ready to fall down this rabbit hole, I've created this just for you: http://Japanology.tv http://Japanology.tv Pull requests / data updates welcome :)
stareatgoats 7y ago
Too late, my friend, too late. There are few things more satisfying than to listen to Peter Barakan calmly explaining some quaint Japanese phenomenon like the history of pens, or the importance of lunch boxes, etc. The world regains its balance, there is order in the universe after all ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begin_Japanology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begin_Japanology
searine 7y ago
[Hello my name is Peter Barakan Intensifies]
- jayd16 7y ago
  >I've heard a lot about -- and I'm going to do it, right now
  - barbs 7y ago
    One time I emailed him asking if he'd record a personalised wedding message to my friends, and he did!
vanadium 7y ago
Gah, I've seen altogether dozens and dozens of hours of this show, to the point where I was hunting down "lost" or hard to find episodes. Barakan is a treasure.
JoeDaDude 7y ago

glandium 7y ago

Ironically, in Japan, the video is geo-blocked by Sony Music Entertainment Japan: この動画には Sony Music Entertainment (Japan) Inc. さんのコンテンツが含まれており、お住まいの地域では著作権上の問題で権利所有者によりブロックされています。

franciscop 7y ago

A friend made a list of all the Begin Japanology chapters. An incredible time sink, but amazing nonetheless: http://japanology.tv/ http://japanology.tv/

drderidder 7y ago

It used to be a commonplace (and interesting) to see Japanese people frequently take out their stamp for anything requiring a "signature" but in recent years I really haven't seen it happening much. I was always able to use a signature on any official document and I think this has become a much more acceptable form of verification for Japanese people nowadays. Also, it's a shame those episodes are geoblocked in Japan since some of the people who'd most enjoy and benefit from them are people who're visiting Japan for an extended period.

kipchak 7y ago
I'm no expert but I think they're still fairly commonly used in China. There's a rather popular small cheap 40w laser engraver (3020) sold on sites like Alibaba designed for stamp making that's become fairly popular elsewhere for hobbyist usage.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

amyjess 7y ago

I really want one of these. I hate signing my name. I never sign anything the same way twice, and it's always a random scribble. I've actually gotten into fights with my bank over this, and before my landlord switched to electronic signatures, signing my lease every year was a huge chore due to the number of signatures involved. Maybe if I'm lucky, the first part of the scribble will look vaguely like the left half of a cursive A, but it falls apart after that. The only area where I'm consistent at all is my initials: I always write my initials as a ligature, as my initials are AJB, which easily link up. [0] So I really envy that the Japanese can just drop down a stamp and be done with it. I've actually been considering having a custom seal made for me, either using my initials ligature (see [0]) or possibly with my name written in Japanese. I should explain the latter: I decided a while back that if I ever need to write my name in Japanese, instead of rendering my name in katakana [1], I'd use a Japanese name that has similar sound/meaning to my own [2]. [0] The main one I use, and an alternative I've been experimenting with https://i.imgur.com/Z30PLre.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Z30PLre.jpg [1] Amy Book -> エイミー・ブック [2] 本えみ <- 本 is the kanji for "Book", and in my name I prefer to read it as もと (Moto), and えみ is Emi (written in hiragana, which is a syllabary that carries no semantic meaning), a fairly common Japanese name that sounds similar to Amy.

mring33621 7y ago
When I was a kid, I worked at Office Warehouse (now Staples or whatever bought them). We sold lots of 'Signature Stamps', which were simply a custom-made rubber stamp with your signature on it. IIRC, the customers that bought them were business owners who needed to sign lots of checks. I'm pretty sure this was both normal and considered legal in the US.
wst_ 7y ago
If you have no Japanese roots I'd rather avoid using kanji and name semantics. Names don't have any meaning and different spelling than one on your official documents may lead to confusion. Only if you ever want to use it legally, of course. If it's just for kicks, then, by all means, go ahead.
bruxis 7y ago
It's not clear by this comment if you live in Japan, but if you do, it's quite common to have a hanko even for foreign names (custom made, of course, ~￥1000+). If you live in the US, signature seals are quite uncommon but probably acceptable. That said, carrying around a seal (and sometimes forgetting it) is not particularly fun.

Animats 7y ago

Docusign partnered with a Japanese manufacturer of hanko to create an authentication device.[1] That was in 2015. What happened to that? It seemed a nice way to package up 2-factor authentication. [1] https://www.docusign.com/press-releases/docusign-and-shachihata-to-bring-hanko-into-the-digital-age https://www.docusign.com/press-releases/docusign-and-shachih...