8 ms·

I don't find it very spooky. Moving though, considering it's a solemn burial of the bodies of enemy soldiers. And if really it was top-secret, it's not even pro

by Udik 7y ago

I don't find it very spooky. Moving though, considering it's a solemn burial of the bodies of enemy soldiers. And if really it was top-secret, it's not even propaganda. Better times than ours. And how cool is the Soviet anthem?

CalChris 7y ago
It's a kick ass anthem but I like the Pet Shop Boys Go West better, especially the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBjMRvOB5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBjMRvOB5M
- Udik 7y ago
  It's indeed a great song and video, and it is based on the Soviet anthem :)
- samstave 7y ago
  I prefer Moskau https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=paiQRSpg4Aw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=paiQRSpg4Aw
- sien 7y ago
  Apparently the Anthem of the Soviet Union is arguably a reworking of Pachabel's Canon as well: The song was written by Jacques Morali, Henri Belolo and the group's lead singer Victor Willis. The melody is based on the State Anthem of the Soviet Union composed by Alexander Alexandrov, which was itself a reworking of Pachelbel's Canon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_West_(song) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_West_(song)
jacquesm 7y ago
> enemy For one to determine that soldiers are 'enemy soldiers' would there not have to be a state of declared war?
- mikeash 7y ago
  That seems a bit too restrictive. I’d hate to tell a Vietnam vet that “Charlie” wasn’t technically the enemy since war was never formally declared. Or tell someone stationed at a base in Afghanistan right now that the people firing mortars into the base aren’t really enemies.
- adventured 7y ago
  You must always be at declared war with your enemies? And why would it need to be "declared" - which is a subjective premise from nation to nation. Throughout recorded history nations have fought proxy and covert wars against their perceived enemies with no declaration. Ask Iran if they're at war with the US (maybe kinda sorta). Then ask them if the US is an enemy (definitely). The same would go for Iran and Israel. There's no confusion there, you can clearly have enemies without a declared war. The instant prior to the declaration of war the other side wasn't an enemy? Logically it's not a sound concept.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    I note that the ceremony very carefully avoided using words such as 'enemy' so I don't think it is appropriate to use them in this thread either. The ceremony was about as respectful as it could have been absent other Russian representation.
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      You should always respect your enemy! Failing to do so is a good way to lose a fight.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  No? Why do you think that? Ask a Vietnam War veteran, or a Korean War veteran, if they fought any enemy soldiers at any point. War was not declared in those cases either. And these are obviously not soldiers in the first place - they're sailors.
  - seppin 7y ago
    > War was not declared in those cases either. Tell that to the dead.
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      You're stealing his point. ;-)
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      ...that was the point...
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    Was there any civilian submarime at that time? I doubt it.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      Not really sure how that’s relevant?
    - macintux 7y ago
      I think it's a terminology problem you're hung up on. Sailors in the military are not technically soldiers; that word is reserved for members of an army.
      - TomMarius 7y ago
        That's what I was missing.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  The phrase "Cold War" isn't without meaning. They were generally deemed to be the enemy by Americans at that time, enough so that Americans were often surprised to learn that Russia and the US were on the same side during WW2. This is how search auto completed my query on the matter: were russia and us allies in ww2 That suggests people are still surprised to learn that and routinely search that question. Americans tend to believe that Russia has always been our enemy and remains so in the eyes of many Americans to this day.
  - seppin 7y ago
    Allies is a bit much, they had a common enemy. Once the enemy was destroyed, no longer allies. Compare that to US/UK aka true allies.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      Gosh, thank you for proving my point. But, in point of fact, the two sides that fought in WW2 were called the Axis and the Allies. Care to take a wild guess which side included both the US and the Soviet Union? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Really? There were joint operations, they received US lend-lease like Britain, there were regular Arctic convoys to Murmansk and Archangel. Not just food and supply aid, Britain sent well over 1,000 Spitfires and 3,000 Hurricanes, the US over 6,000 P39s and P40s. No end of tanks and other vehicles too, including over 75,000 jeeps. An alliance in every sense - it just wasn't a permanent alliance. Allied even though few liked Stalin's regime. Yalta conference - to plan the peace - was the point of change that slid toward cold war. Edit: accurate numbers. :)
      - chupasaurus 7y ago
        > Not just food and supply aid... The whole army and the workers of the most crucial factories had ate almost exclusively a lend-lease food from USA, also after food stock depletion in 1943 Soviet Union increased the demand of food over weaponry to ¼ of supplies' tonnage (that's how my grandmother had a first taste of chocolate at the age of 9). So don't talk like it was "just food", some (due to widely censored documents and history classes) of us still know how crucial this support was, along with trucks, air fuel and others.
dogma1138 7y ago
At least as far as western warfare goes burying enemy soldiers, even with full honors is something that isn't that uncommon; even directly in the aftermath of a battle especially if the enemy showed considerable resistance and heroism.
qychtkd 7y ago
I’d say the Soviet anthem is one of the best there is. They missed it so much it was brought back as the Russian national anthem after Yeltsin. Red Army Chorus has some good tracks like it. Very catchy and “patriotic” if you are in line to fight western imperialism.
- TomMarius 7y ago
  I'm always sad how such a beautiful song had to be destroyed by such evil.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    It wasn't destroyed.
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      Huh? Connection with the Soviet Union and especially the Red Army surely destroys it for most, if not all, people I know. This song is most often described as "beautiful, but turn it fucking off because it reminds me of my dead family" around me. What is it, if not destroyed? Merely playing it in my headphones because of its beauty made me despisable in the eyes of my former classmates. Even I can't stop thinking about all the evil the Soviets did to my family while listening to it.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        >* Huh? Connection with the Soviet Union and especially the Red Army surely destroys it for most, if not all, people I know. * Those people are shallow. It's one of the most beloved anthems globally. Go check the comments in renditions of the anthem in YouTube. Nobody cares if it was connected to USSR or not, the same way people can admire Gagarin and not care about the USSR connection. Not to mention that there are worse things to be connected to than USSR -- USSR had several stages, including a more open stage (with many social firsts) in the NEP era, and a more or less conventional and more open post-60s part, it wasn't just stalinism and suppression all the way.
rossenberg79 7y ago
> Better times than ours. Not sure why it’s necessary to make a slight against our times? Even Osama Bin Laden was given a proper burial at sea, and he wasn’t even a soldier, he was a damn criminal. We didn’t even use photos of his remains for propaganda.
- toomanybeersies 7y ago
  Osama Bin Laden was given a burial at sea so that he had no burial site, and photos of his remains weren't released because they could just as easily be used as propaganda against the USA.

by Udik 7y ago

CalChris 7y ago

It's a kick ass anthem but I like the Pet Shop Boys Go West better, especially the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBjMRvOB5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBjMRvOB5M

Udik 7y ago
It's indeed a great song and video, and it is based on the Soviet anthem :)
samstave 7y ago
I prefer Moskau https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=paiQRSpg4Aw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=paiQRSpg4Aw
sien 7y ago
Apparently the Anthem of the Soviet Union is arguably a reworking of Pachabel's Canon as well: The song was written by Jacques Morali, Henri Belolo and the group's lead singer Victor Willis. The melody is based on the State Anthem of the Soviet Union composed by Alexander Alexandrov, which was itself a reworking of Pachelbel's Canon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_West_(song) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_West_(song)

jacquesm 7y ago

> enemy For one to determine that soldiers are 'enemy soldiers' would there not have to be a state of declared war?

mikeash 7y ago
That seems a bit too restrictive. I’d hate to tell a Vietnam vet that “Charlie” wasn’t technically the enemy since war was never formally declared. Or tell someone stationed at a base in Afghanistan right now that the people firing mortars into the base aren’t really enemies.
adventured 7y ago
You must always be at declared war with your enemies? And why would it need to be "declared" - which is a subjective premise from nation to nation. Throughout recorded history nations have fought proxy and covert wars against their perceived enemies with no declaration. Ask Iran if they're at war with the US (maybe kinda sorta). Then ask them if the US is an enemy (definitely). The same would go for Iran and Israel. There's no confusion there, you can clearly have enemies without a declared war. The instant prior to the declaration of war the other side wasn't an enemy? Logically it's not a sound concept.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  I note that the ceremony very carefully avoided using words such as 'enemy' so I don't think it is appropriate to use them in this thread either. The ceremony was about as respectful as it could have been absent other Russian representation.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    You should always respect your enemy! Failing to do so is a good way to lose a fight.
chrisseaton 7y ago
No? Why do you think that? Ask a Vietnam War veteran, or a Korean War veteran, if they fought any enemy soldiers at any point. War was not declared in those cases either. And these are obviously not soldiers in the first place - they're sailors.
- seppin 7y ago
  > War was not declared in those cases either. Tell that to the dead.
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    You're stealing his point. ;-)
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    ...that was the point...
- TomMarius 7y ago
  Was there any civilian submarime at that time? I doubt it.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Not really sure how that’s relevant?
  - macintux 7y ago
    I think it's a terminology problem you're hung up on. Sailors in the military are not technically soldiers; that word is reserved for members of an army.
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      That's what I was missing.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
The phrase "Cold War" isn't without meaning. They were generally deemed to be the enemy by Americans at that time, enough so that Americans were often surprised to learn that Russia and the US were on the same side during WW2. This is how search auto completed my query on the matter: were russia and us allies in ww2 That suggests people are still surprised to learn that and routinely search that question. Americans tend to believe that Russia has always been our enemy and remains so in the eyes of many Americans to this day.
- seppin 7y ago
  Allies is a bit much, they had a common enemy. Once the enemy was destroyed, no longer allies. Compare that to US/UK aka true allies.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    Gosh, thank you for proving my point. But, in point of fact, the two sides that fought in WW2 were called the Axis and the Allies. Care to take a wild guess which side included both the US and the Soviet Union? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Really? There were joint operations, they received US lend-lease like Britain, there were regular Arctic convoys to Murmansk and Archangel. Not just food and supply aid, Britain sent well over 1,000 Spitfires and 3,000 Hurricanes, the US over 6,000 P39s and P40s. No end of tanks and other vehicles too, including over 75,000 jeeps. An alliance in every sense - it just wasn't a permanent alliance. Allied even though few liked Stalin's regime. Yalta conference - to plan the peace - was the point of change that slid toward cold war. Edit: accurate numbers. :)
    - chupasaurus 7y ago
      > Not just food and supply aid... The whole army and the workers of the most crucial factories had ate almost exclusively a lend-lease food from USA, also after food stock depletion in 1943 Soviet Union increased the demand of food over weaponry to ¼ of supplies' tonnage (that's how my grandmother had a first taste of chocolate at the age of 9). So don't talk like it was "just food", some (due to widely censored documents and history classes) of us still know how crucial this support was, along with trucks, air fuel and others.

dogma1138 7y ago

At least as far as western warfare goes burying enemy soldiers, even with full honors is something that isn't that uncommon; even directly in the aftermath of a battle especially if the enemy showed considerable resistance and heroism.

qychtkd 7y ago

I’d say the Soviet anthem is one of the best there is. They missed it so much it was brought back as the Russian national anthem after Yeltsin. Red Army Chorus has some good tracks like it. Very catchy and “patriotic” if you are in line to fight western imperialism.

TomMarius 7y ago
I'm always sad how such a beautiful song had to be destroyed by such evil.
- coldtea 7y ago
  It wasn't destroyed.
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    Huh? Connection with the Soviet Union and especially the Red Army surely destroys it for most, if not all, people I know. This song is most often described as "beautiful, but turn it fucking off because it reminds me of my dead family" around me. What is it, if not destroyed? Merely playing it in my headphones because of its beauty made me despisable in the eyes of my former classmates. Even I can't stop thinking about all the evil the Soviets did to my family while listening to it.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >* Huh? Connection with the Soviet Union and especially the Red Army surely destroys it for most, if not all, people I know. * Those people are shallow. It's one of the most beloved anthems globally. Go check the comments in renditions of the anthem in YouTube. Nobody cares if it was connected to USSR or not, the same way people can admire Gagarin and not care about the USSR connection. Not to mention that there are worse things to be connected to than USSR -- USSR had several stages, including a more open stage (with many social firsts) in the NEP era, and a more or less conventional and more open post-60s part, it wasn't just stalinism and suppression all the way.

rossenberg79 7y ago

> Better times than ours. Not sure why it’s necessary to make a slight against our times? Even Osama Bin Laden was given a proper burial at sea, and he wasn’t even a soldier, he was a damn criminal. We didn’t even use photos of his remains for propaganda.

toomanybeersies 7y ago
Osama Bin Laden was given a burial at sea so that he had no burial site, and photos of his remains weren't released because they could just as easily be used as propaganda against the USA.