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There is an energy saving component to recycling. Aluminum for example takes a tremendous amount of power to produce and recycling reduces that. Recycling mak

There is an energy saving component to recycling. Aluminum for example takes a tremendous amount of power to produce and recycling reduces that. Recycling makes different amounts of sense depending on the material. I suspect that a fair amount of material mined is subsidized by different governments (natural resource extraction at least in the us often takes place on leased government land). I did some landfill design engineering in a previous career. while there is lots of space sometimes it’s far away, so there is trucking waste around. Plus landfills despite their liners and clay layers can leak nasty stuff into the groundwater. You pay for what you put in the landfill by weight, so reducing waste can save municipalities money.

RobLach 8y ago
Wouldn't you just make landfills hotspots for mining once the economics make sense for things like metals?
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Isn't it better economically not to bury the stuff in the ground and then dig it up?
  - RobLach 7y ago
    Depends on the logistical costs. But I agree, it's kinda like a broken window thing.
BurningFrog 8y ago
> Aluminum for example... What I've heard is that Aluminum is, by far, the only material it makes sense to recycle. Which, if true, means it's less of an example and more of an exception. Though an important one.
- anticensor 8y ago
  PE, PP, PET and 1st grade paper/cardboard also makes sense to recycle.
ars 8y ago
People always mention Aluminum when it comes to recycling, but Aluminum is the best of all the materials. The vast majority of material is not like that though. In summary: Recycle metal, not anything else.
- pfdietz 7y ago
  And even with aluminum, there are different alloys, and you can't necessarily mix them when recycling.
barry-cotter 8y ago
> There is an energy saving component to recycling. Aluminum for example takes a tremendous amount of power to produce and recycling reduces that. Yes, that’s why aluminium is recycled everywhere. Glass, on the other hand, is more of a “What the hell do we do with this?” situation because making glass from sand is cheap and doesn’t have the quality control issues of making it from old glass. That’s why recycled glass goes to making gravel, decorative or not, mostly. Transport is cheap and most recycling makes no economic sense and wouldn’t even with a carbon tax. Chemical feedstock is cheap, wood is cheap, metals are cheap. That covers plastics, paper and manufactured goods. Recycling is a religious impulse, not an economic one.
- kwhitefoot 8y ago
  > Transport is cheap only because heavy goods vehicles do not pay for the damage that they do to the roads and the environment and because the oil industry is effectively subsidised.
- tzs 8y ago
  > Glass, on the other hand, is more of a “What the hell do we do with this?” situation because making glass from sand is cheap [...] What about the sand shortage? [1] [2] [3] [1] https://www.npr.org/2017/07/21/538472671/world-faces-global-sand-shortage https://www.npr.org/2017/07/21/538472671/world-faces-global-... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/global-sand-shortage-could-cause-damaging-effects-2018-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/global-sand-shortage-could-c... [3] https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/04/24/why-there-is-a-shortage-of-sand https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/04/24/...
  - YokoZar 8y ago
    The shortage is for beach sand. I believe glass is made from different sort of sand.
- donw 8y ago
  I like the German solution for dealing with glass bottles: rather than recycling, they are made to be washed and reused. You pay a deposit when you buy a bottle of tasty beverage, and some time later, can take those bottles back to the grocery store. There, you put your used bottles into a machine which scans each bottle, and gives you an aggregate receipt for all of the bottles you returned, which you can then use to buy goods at that store. It's a great system for encouraging reuse, and we should be doing this in the US.
icelancer 8y ago
> There is an energy saving component to recycling. Aluminum for example takes a tremendous amount of power to produce and recycling reduces that. It's also basically one of the only things you will get paid for recycling (copper being the other notable exception; scrap steel is mostly worthless unless you have a ton of it). No one wants to pay you for used plastic or paper. That alone should tell us all about the economics of recycling.
- onlyrealcuzzo 8y ago
  It should also tell a lot about the negative externalities of plastic not being priced into it.
- Mediterraneo10 8y ago
  > No one wants to pay you for used plastic or paper. In Europe at least, people do want to pay you for used paper, and enough money that some marginal social groups specialize in collecting waste cardboard from businesses.

RobLach 8y ago

Wouldn't you just make landfills hotspots for mining once the economics make sense for things like metals?

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Isn't it better economically not to bury the stuff in the ground and then dig it up?
- RobLach 7y ago
  Depends on the logistical costs. But I agree, it's kinda like a broken window thing.

BurningFrog 8y ago

> Aluminum for example... What I've heard is that Aluminum is, by far, the only material it makes sense to recycle. Which, if true, means it's less of an example and more of an exception. Though an important one.

anticensor 8y ago
PE, PP, PET and 1st grade paper/cardboard also makes sense to recycle.

ars 8y ago

People always mention Aluminum when it comes to recycling, but Aluminum is the best of all the materials. The vast majority of material is not like that though. In summary: Recycle metal, not anything else.

pfdietz 7y ago
And even with aluminum, there are different alloys, and you can't necessarily mix them when recycling.

barry-cotter 8y ago

> There is an energy saving component to recycling. Aluminum for example takes a tremendous amount of power to produce and recycling reduces that. Yes, that’s why aluminium is recycled everywhere. Glass, on the other hand, is more of a “What the hell do we do with this?” situation because making glass from sand is cheap and doesn’t have the quality control issues of making it from old glass. That’s why recycled glass goes to making gravel, decorative or not, mostly. Transport is cheap and most recycling makes no economic sense and wouldn’t even with a carbon tax. Chemical feedstock is cheap, wood is cheap, metals are cheap. That covers plastics, paper and manufactured goods. Recycling is a religious impulse, not an economic one.

kwhitefoot 8y ago
> Transport is cheap only because heavy goods vehicles do not pay for the damage that they do to the roads and the environment and because the oil industry is effectively subsidised.
tzs 8y ago
> Glass, on the other hand, is more of a “What the hell do we do with this?” situation because making glass from sand is cheap [...] What about the sand shortage? [1] [2] [3] [1] https://www.npr.org/2017/07/21/538472671/world-faces-global-sand-shortage https://www.npr.org/2017/07/21/538472671/world-faces-global-... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/global-sand-shortage-could-cause-damaging-effects-2018-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/global-sand-shortage-could-c... [3] https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/04/24/why-there-is-a-shortage-of-sand https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/04/24/...
- YokoZar 8y ago
  The shortage is for beach sand. I believe glass is made from different sort of sand.
donw 8y ago
I like the German solution for dealing with glass bottles: rather than recycling, they are made to be washed and reused. You pay a deposit when you buy a bottle of tasty beverage, and some time later, can take those bottles back to the grocery store. There, you put your used bottles into a machine which scans each bottle, and gives you an aggregate receipt for all of the bottles you returned, which you can then use to buy goods at that store. It's a great system for encouraging reuse, and we should be doing this in the US.

icelancer 8y ago

> There is an energy saving component to recycling. Aluminum for example takes a tremendous amount of power to produce and recycling reduces that. It's also basically one of the only things you will get paid for recycling (copper being the other notable exception; scrap steel is mostly worthless unless you have a ton of it). No one wants to pay you for used plastic or paper. That alone should tell us all about the economics of recycling.

onlyrealcuzzo 8y ago
It should also tell a lot about the negative externalities of plastic not being priced into it.
Mediterraneo10 8y ago
> No one wants to pay you for used plastic or paper. In Europe at least, people do want to pay you for used paper, and enough money that some marginal social groups specialize in collecting waste cardboard from businesses.