6 ms·

I think a lot of people learn this the hard way, yes. But I kinda don't see what is wrong with this. Having work life balance is somewhat of a luxury, and it's

I think a lot of people learn this the hard way, yes. But I kinda don't see what is wrong with this. Having work life balance is somewhat of a luxury, and it's a luxury to be able to say "money doesn't make me happy". It's a luxury to come to that conclusion. How do you arrive at that conclusion without going through the ringer first?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
j2kun 7y ago
> Having work life balance is somewhat of a luxury, Tell that to the history of labor unions
- unreal37 7y ago
  Talented and ambitious people would hate being in a labor union. It's a place where doing more than what is expected is actively shunned, and knowing how little work you can do is the optimization.
  - task_queue 7y ago
    > Talented and ambitious people would hate being in a labor union Doubt it. Mentorship and apprenticeship opportunities are abound. Unions provide a floor for negotiations from which you can up-negotiate. If your categorization was true, actors would never have breakout opportunities despite their union representation. Reality disagrees with your assertion and any movie star ever acts as evidence contrary to your claim.
    - thereisnospork 7y ago
      Movie stars are in a guild, not a union. Much like doctors. Unions have personally screwed me out of hundreds of dollars of month in payment for pensions I'll never see because they've forced me into inappropriate position titles to the benefit of legacy members.
      - loteck 7y ago
        Are you talking about Sag-AFTRA? It's a labor union.
      - task_queue 7y ago
        The Actor's Guild is a labor union and part of the AFL-CIO.
    - specialist 7y ago
      It's a tough thing being pro labor, anti union. Good governance, fairness, accountability, responsibility, transparency remain challenges for all organizations, not just unions. Happily, we've been getting better at finding and learning from other experiments. Reform is thankless exhausting work. It takes a special kind of crazy for a person to do that kind of policy work.
  - adamsea 7y ago
    Phd Graduate students seem to like labor unions - they have been organizing and striking for them a lot recently. And classical musicians (The Chicago Symphony Orchestra recently went on strike). Are they all stupid and listless?
    - screye 7y ago
      It's simple. When the supply vastly outpaces demand, it opens up many doors for exploiting those lower on the ladder. Both grad school and classical music are 2 such areas. Software Engineering still hasn't reached that point. The profits earned by having top percentile employees, far outpace the compensation packages they demand.
      - thrower123 7y ago
        A decent software developer might be worth three to five mediocre ones, without being particularly valuable. The idea of the 10x developer is so overwrought, but there are just so damned many people who are not capable of producing anything at all. It's really a profession that does not scale well.
  - jordanbeiber 7y ago
    Here in (socialist/democratic) Sweden unions are prevalent for all categories of labour and have been for ages. Even if you’re not actually an active member of one of the about 60 organizations, the work they do benefit you through collective agreements. Look at the companies and innovations sprung from this setting through the years. It’s IMHO actually quite impressive considering the population size. At least I believe it’s safe to say it doesn’t stifle innovation or hard working individuals in general — high performers gonna’ perform.
    - ptr 7y ago
      You aren’t typically a member of a union if you work in tech in Sweden. Some unions are also very passive, basically just an insurance. Crediting unions with the inventions and companies seems quite optimistic. Imho, they were at best a method for avoiding a working class/socialist revolution in the early 1900s and for supporting blue collar workers in general. Also, Sweden isn’t socialist, and socialism isn’t equal to democracy.
      - jordanbeiber 7y ago
        First off, I'm not "crediting" anything, I'm refuting the idea that unions would hurt ambition. Second, you have quite a narrow and arguably wrong idea about what socialism is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism Sweden is for example governed like a social democracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism#Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism#Social_demo... Being scared of the S word is kind of silly and assuming socialism equals totalitarian Stalinism or Communism is just plain wrong. Third -- if you work in tech you might very well be a member of for example "Unionen" (660.000 members, myself included) or "Sveriges Ingenjorer" if you're an actual engineer. Take a look at SACO with it's 22 unions: https://www.saco.se/en/ https://www.saco.se/en/ Just some other thoughts: The opposite of socialism is not capitalism, as is usually portrayed. For me, the opposite is what happens when accountability towards the people and greater good is nowhere to be found. Be it through unregulated free market corporations, organisation and politics or a totalitarian dictatorship. Both corrupt and destroy and one thing is common: lack of accountability. Also, I like talking about ”socialist Sweden” whenever an American talks about the horrors of unions, regulations and government.
taneq 7y ago
> Having work life balance is somewhat of a luxury, and it's a luxury to be able to say "money doesn't make me happy". It's a luxury to come to that conclusion. Exactly. Any time anyone says "money doesn't make me happy" what they really mean is "I already have enough money that it's no longer the limiting factor in my happiness." The vast majority of peoples' lives and happiness could be markedly improved by giving them more money.
- aliteralrobot 7y ago
  This isn’t at all what people by money not buying happiness. Even if your life objectively improves, it’s just a matter of time until your brain adjusts to the new normal and you’re back to the same levels of happiness you were at before the money. It’s pretty much the crowning “feature” of our biological wiring - because if an animal like us in ancient times was blissfully content the moment their lot in life improved, they would stop trying and not end up spreading their genes. So we’re pretty much doomed to never be truly happy/content because of how natural selection works.
  - projektir 7y ago
    According to what? There are plenty of fairly trivial counterexamples to this. If what you say here is correct, what is mental illness? What is a solid marriage vs a terrible one? What is a good job vs a bad job? For instance, lots of peoples' mental states improve when they are able to not live with their parents, for various reasons. That requires money.
  - taneq 7y ago
    If you're hungry, or cold, or have no safe place to sleep, money will fix that. If you're just managing to make ends meet and in constant fear of losing your job, money will fix that. If you're overworked and stressed from your high pressure job, money will fix that. In fact, until you're rich enough to be way off the pointy end of Maslowe's hierarchy, money will fix pretty much anything that ails you.
    - bumby 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

j2kun 7y ago

> Having work life balance is somewhat of a luxury, Tell that to the history of labor unions

unreal37 7y ago
Talented and ambitious people would hate being in a labor union. It's a place where doing more than what is expected is actively shunned, and knowing how little work you can do is the optimization.
- task_queue 7y ago
  > Talented and ambitious people would hate being in a labor union Doubt it. Mentorship and apprenticeship opportunities are abound. Unions provide a floor for negotiations from which you can up-negotiate. If your categorization was true, actors would never have breakout opportunities despite their union representation. Reality disagrees with your assertion and any movie star ever acts as evidence contrary to your claim.
  - thereisnospork 7y ago
    Movie stars are in a guild, not a union. Much like doctors. Unions have personally screwed me out of hundreds of dollars of month in payment for pensions I'll never see because they've forced me into inappropriate position titles to the benefit of legacy members.
    - loteck 7y ago
      Are you talking about Sag-AFTRA? It's a labor union.
    - task_queue 7y ago
      The Actor's Guild is a labor union and part of the AFL-CIO.
  - specialist 7y ago
    It's a tough thing being pro labor, anti union. Good governance, fairness, accountability, responsibility, transparency remain challenges for all organizations, not just unions. Happily, we've been getting better at finding and learning from other experiments. Reform is thankless exhausting work. It takes a special kind of crazy for a person to do that kind of policy work.
- adamsea 7y ago
  Phd Graduate students seem to like labor unions - they have been organizing and striking for them a lot recently. And classical musicians (The Chicago Symphony Orchestra recently went on strike). Are they all stupid and listless?
  - screye 7y ago
    It's simple. When the supply vastly outpaces demand, it opens up many doors for exploiting those lower on the ladder. Both grad school and classical music are 2 such areas. Software Engineering still hasn't reached that point. The profits earned by having top percentile employees, far outpace the compensation packages they demand.
    - thrower123 7y ago
      A decent software developer might be worth three to five mediocre ones, without being particularly valuable. The idea of the 10x developer is so overwrought, but there are just so damned many people who are not capable of producing anything at all. It's really a profession that does not scale well.
- jordanbeiber 7y ago
  Here in (socialist/democratic) Sweden unions are prevalent for all categories of labour and have been for ages. Even if you’re not actually an active member of one of the about 60 organizations, the work they do benefit you through collective agreements. Look at the companies and innovations sprung from this setting through the years. It’s IMHO actually quite impressive considering the population size. At least I believe it’s safe to say it doesn’t stifle innovation or hard working individuals in general — high performers gonna’ perform.
  - ptr 7y ago
    You aren’t typically a member of a union if you work in tech in Sweden. Some unions are also very passive, basically just an insurance. Crediting unions with the inventions and companies seems quite optimistic. Imho, they were at best a method for avoiding a working class/socialist revolution in the early 1900s and for supporting blue collar workers in general. Also, Sweden isn’t socialist, and socialism isn’t equal to democracy.
    - jordanbeiber 7y ago
      First off, I'm not "crediting" anything, I'm refuting the idea that unions would hurt ambition. Second, you have quite a narrow and arguably wrong idea about what socialism is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism Sweden is for example governed like a social democracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism#Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism#Social_demo... Being scared of the S word is kind of silly and assuming socialism equals totalitarian Stalinism or Communism is just plain wrong. Third -- if you work in tech you might very well be a member of for example "Unionen" (660.000 members, myself included) or "Sveriges Ingenjorer" if you're an actual engineer. Take a look at SACO with it's 22 unions: https://www.saco.se/en/ https://www.saco.se/en/ Just some other thoughts: The opposite of socialism is not capitalism, as is usually portrayed. For me, the opposite is what happens when accountability towards the people and greater good is nowhere to be found. Be it through unregulated free market corporations, organisation and politics or a totalitarian dictatorship. Both corrupt and destroy and one thing is common: lack of accountability. Also, I like talking about ”socialist Sweden” whenever an American talks about the horrors of unions, regulations and government.

taneq 7y ago

> Having work life balance is somewhat of a luxury, and it's a luxury to be able to say "money doesn't make me happy". It's a luxury to come to that conclusion. Exactly. Any time anyone says "money doesn't make me happy" what they really mean is "I already have enough money that it's no longer the limiting factor in my happiness." The vast majority of peoples' lives and happiness could be markedly improved by giving them more money.

aliteralrobot 7y ago
This isn’t at all what people by money not buying happiness. Even if your life objectively improves, it’s just a matter of time until your brain adjusts to the new normal and you’re back to the same levels of happiness you were at before the money. It’s pretty much the crowning “feature” of our biological wiring - because if an animal like us in ancient times was blissfully content the moment their lot in life improved, they would stop trying and not end up spreading their genes. So we’re pretty much doomed to never be truly happy/content because of how natural selection works.
- projektir 7y ago
  According to what? There are plenty of fairly trivial counterexamples to this. If what you say here is correct, what is mental illness? What is a solid marriage vs a terrible one? What is a good job vs a bad job? For instance, lots of peoples' mental states improve when they are able to not live with their parents, for various reasons. That requires money.
- taneq 7y ago
  If you're hungry, or cold, or have no safe place to sleep, money will fix that. If you're just managing to make ends meet and in constant fear of losing your job, money will fix that. If you're overworked and stressed from your high pressure job, money will fix that. In fact, until you're rich enough to be way off the pointy end of Maslowe's hierarchy, money will fix pretty much anything that ails you.
  - bumby 7y ago