4 ms·

Aren't prisons supposed to be like that? In my perception, the goal of prison is exactly that: be like hell so other people are afraid of getting there enough s

Aren't prisons supposed to be like that? In my perception, the goal of prison is exactly that: be like hell so other people are afraid of getting there enough so they don't commit crime? Someone who's already into prison for a long term is lost anyway, he or she will be criminalized for life. And this is why prison terms should be mostly binary: we should try to either punish someone with something short of that, or if not, lock him up for long enough he either never makes it out of there, or does it old enough so he's not tuu much of a threat anymore.

apalmer 8y ago
Honestly, my understanding is prison are supposed to be a deterrent for the free, and a rehabilitation for the imprisoned. Most prison terms are not 40-60 year virtual life sentences, so most people who go to prison will see the outside again. So while I dont think we should 'take it easy' on prisoners we really shouldn't be trying to do damage that will prevent them from having a chance to function in society. Besides all that fundamental as a society either the society believes in human rights or it doesnt...
- Lol_80005 8y ago
  In the US, specifically Georgia, the justice system is almost strictly punative with little to no provision for rehabilitation. Should you get stuck in it, it is designed to punish you to the maximum normal sentence, not to help you in any way. As far as I can tell, it's not designed as a rehabilitation for the imprisioned. Probation and parole similarly act with punative means only. In practice, the probation officers are not your friends and they are not there to help you.
js2 8y ago
The severity of punishment does little to deter crime. More significant is the certainty of getting caught: https://nij.gov/five-things/Pages/deterrence.aspx https://nij.gov/five-things/Pages/deterrence.aspx As well, the purpose of prison should be not only to punish, but also to rehabilitate. I would actually argue rehabilitation should be the primary purpose of prison.
razakel 8y ago
>Aren't prisons supposed to be like that? In my perception, the goal of prison is exactly that: be like hell so other people are afraid of getting there enough so they don't commit crime? What about the wrongly convicted? I understand the desire for revenge, but prisons should be safe, secure and inmates should come out of there as people you'd be happy to have as a neighbor. When you treat prisoners like animals, they'll act like animals.
- luckylion 8y ago
  > When you treat prisoners like animals, they'll act like animals. And when you don't treat them like animals, they will still act like animals. Some, of course, not all, just like today not all US-inmates come out acting like animals.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  > I understand the desire for revenge, but prisons should be safe, secure and inmates should come out of there as people you'd be happy to have as a neighbor. All else being equal, I’d always prefer a non-ex-con over an ex-con as a neighbor. I doubt I’m alone in this.
  - Fjolsvith 8y ago
    At least you know where you stand with someone who's been caught before. Every ex-con starts out as a non-ex-con.
lioeters 8y ago
My goodness, have you ever had a family member, relative, friend or known anyone who has gone to prison? The way you describe the goal of prison sounds worse than slavery, worse than training dogs. These are human beings, and I consider it utterly uncivilized and inhumane that we would have an institution designed to "be like hell". It's also a typically Christian approach (I mean the church, not the original love commune nor the homeless man who taught to love each other as one self) - to play God, to judge, to create hell and condemn someone to it. Many of these lost souls are already in hell, of a broken society, a broken home. Putting them in a deeper circle of hell is not any kind of a solution. For the person being punished, it's just a continuation of the same shit way they've been treated. How can we expect any rehabilitation, any healing to take place in a dungeon? It just reminds me that we're still in the Dark Ages, underneath our veneer of "civilization".
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  > It just reminds me that we're still in the Dark Ages, underneath our veneer of "civilization". Though it's only more recently that keeping people in prison for significant lengths of time has been commonplace, or thought of as a way of punishing/rehabilitating. Present day is darker in some ways than the so-called Dark Ages.
  - mercer 8y ago
    Could you tell us more about that? I'm very curious to know what happened other than long-term imprisonment. Banishment? Death? The stocks?
    - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
      Yes, all of those. As well as fines.
weeksie 8y ago
If you were in a medieval society where punishment was a demonstration of the monarch's power as displayed on the body of an offender, then yeah I guess? Depends on what you want a prison to do. For grisly vengeance, a town square pillory is a pretty good approach. But if you pretend to care about the larger good of society (but still harbor that mean streak) then you lock people away, assure the population you're doing your best to "reform" them, and choose the most expensive form of torture you can imagine: keeping people alive for the rest of their lives all the while subjecting them to sexual violence from their fellow prisoners. Has the benefit of fewer angry riots over public execution and torture. More predictable. If you actually care about people you create a system like they have in Norway.
wyldfire 8y ago
What if it was a neutral experience or even a positive one? I would think detention alone would be a deterrent. Infrequent contact with loved ones, no agency to set your life in the direction you want. I think decreasing recidivism should be a goal and we should be willing to spend money to help make it happen.

apalmer 8y ago

Honestly, my understanding is prison are supposed to be a deterrent for the free, and a rehabilitation for the imprisoned. Most prison terms are not 40-60 year virtual life sentences, so most people who go to prison will see the outside again. So while I dont think we should 'take it easy' on prisoners we really shouldn't be trying to do damage that will prevent them from having a chance to function in society. Besides all that fundamental as a society either the society believes in human rights or it doesnt...

Lol_80005 8y ago
In the US, specifically Georgia, the justice system is almost strictly punative with little to no provision for rehabilitation. Should you get stuck in it, it is designed to punish you to the maximum normal sentence, not to help you in any way. As far as I can tell, it's not designed as a rehabilitation for the imprisioned. Probation and parole similarly act with punative means only. In practice, the probation officers are not your friends and they are not there to help you.

js2 8y ago

The severity of punishment does little to deter crime. More significant is the certainty of getting caught: https://nij.gov/five-things/Pages/deterrence.aspx https://nij.gov/five-things/Pages/deterrence.aspx As well, the purpose of prison should be not only to punish, but also to rehabilitate. I would actually argue rehabilitation should be the primary purpose of prison.

razakel 8y ago

>Aren't prisons supposed to be like that? In my perception, the goal of prison is exactly that: be like hell so other people are afraid of getting there enough so they don't commit crime? What about the wrongly convicted? I understand the desire for revenge, but prisons should be safe, secure and inmates should come out of there as people you'd be happy to have as a neighbor. When you treat prisoners like animals, they'll act like animals.

luckylion 8y ago
> When you treat prisoners like animals, they'll act like animals. And when you don't treat them like animals, they will still act like animals. Some, of course, not all, just like today not all US-inmates come out acting like animals.
sokoloff 8y ago
> I understand the desire for revenge, but prisons should be safe, secure and inmates should come out of there as people you'd be happy to have as a neighbor. All else being equal, I’d always prefer a non-ex-con over an ex-con as a neighbor. I doubt I’m alone in this.
- Fjolsvith 8y ago
  At least you know where you stand with someone who's been caught before. Every ex-con starts out as a non-ex-con.

lioeters 8y ago

My goodness, have you ever had a family member, relative, friend or known anyone who has gone to prison? The way you describe the goal of prison sounds worse than slavery, worse than training dogs. These are human beings, and I consider it utterly uncivilized and inhumane that we would have an institution designed to "be like hell". It's also a typically Christian approach (I mean the church, not the original love commune nor the homeless man who taught to love each other as one self) - to play God, to judge, to create hell and condemn someone to it. Many of these lost souls are already in hell, of a broken society, a broken home. Putting them in a deeper circle of hell is not any kind of a solution. For the person being punished, it's just a continuation of the same shit way they've been treated. How can we expect any rehabilitation, any healing to take place in a dungeon? It just reminds me that we're still in the Dark Ages, underneath our veneer of "civilization".

_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
> It just reminds me that we're still in the Dark Ages, underneath our veneer of "civilization". Though it's only more recently that keeping people in prison for significant lengths of time has been commonplace, or thought of as a way of punishing/rehabilitating. Present day is darker in some ways than the so-called Dark Ages.
- mercer 8y ago
  Could you tell us more about that? I'm very curious to know what happened other than long-term imprisonment. Banishment? Death? The stocks?
  - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    Yes, all of those. As well as fines.

weeksie 8y ago

If you were in a medieval society where punishment was a demonstration of the monarch's power as displayed on the body of an offender, then yeah I guess? Depends on what you want a prison to do. For grisly vengeance, a town square pillory is a pretty good approach. But if you pretend to care about the larger good of society (but still harbor that mean streak) then you lock people away, assure the population you're doing your best to "reform" them, and choose the most expensive form of torture you can imagine: keeping people alive for the rest of their lives all the while subjecting them to sexual violence from their fellow prisoners. Has the benefit of fewer angry riots over public execution and torture. More predictable. If you actually care about people you create a system like they have in Norway.

wyldfire 8y ago

What if it was a neutral experience or even a positive one? I would think detention alone would be a deterrent. Infrequent contact with loved ones, no agency to set your life in the direction you want. I think decreasing recidivism should be a goal and we should be willing to spend money to help make it happen.