5 ms·

The trend towards lack of physical controls in cars is absolutely bonkers. I'm gobsmacked anyone thinks the Tesla Model 3 is good design. Same with desk phone

by EricE 8y ago

The trend towards lack of physical controls in cars is absolutely bonkers. I'm gobsmacked anyone thinks the Tesla Model 3 is good design. Same with desk phones. Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window in the name of aesthetics :p

synaesthesisx 8y ago
Think of it this way - imagine using an iPad/tablet while driving. Now imagine your grandfather using an iPad, while also driving. Unfortunately accessibility & haptics have been pushed to the backburner.
- ngold 8y ago
  Now imagine your grandfather trying to change the radio station on a touchscreen display while driving.
marnett 8y ago
Unfortunately I think it’s more about pricing as oppposed to better design paradigms. Replacing embedded system engineers with cheap java engineers? Yea that requires a screen.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Similar to capacitive touch panels on appliances. You'd think this sci-fi look is more expensive to make, but it's actually cheaper. The "buttons" have no moving parts.
  - tty2300 8y ago
    And should last longer, make it easier to clean and not get gunk stuck in it causing it to jam up.
    - raverbashing 8y ago
      Yes, that's the big selling point. And I agree for somme appliances it is great.
    - ummonk 8y ago
      It's possible to have a sealed membrane over a set of physical buttons.
      - tty2300 8y ago
        That's still hard to clean. I have a stove that has no physical buttons or knobs and I can wipe it clean with a cloth easily.
    - Moru 8y ago
      And make the driver look at a screen to adjust temperature / fan or whatever.
      - logicprog 8y ago
        I already have to look at the knobs in my car to see what I'm doing with them (or even find them in the first place). Is this true for anyone else? I'm reading this thread totally unable to understand what we are arguing about haha.
        TeMPOraL 8y ago
        I don't think it's true for many others. The ability to operate a device without looking at the controls is one of the biggest features of old-school "dumb", physical controls. I guess you don't have to look at your feet to find the car pedals, or at your seat to find the gear lever and manual brake.
        marcosdumay 8y ago
        Temperature settings have famously bad controllers. I guess it's because they are new, and car designers didn't have time to compete on quality of those yet. You can control the radio of any high-end 00's car without looking at the controls.
  - rsync 8y ago
    "Similar to capacitive touch panels on appliances. You'd think this sci-fi look is more expensive to make, but it's actually cheaper." This is correct and will drive style and purchasing decisions for the affluent in the future, if it isn't already. A home full of wifi-connected "smart" appliances all (failing) to talk to one another will be a sign of poverty while a big hulking Traulsen[1] with no digital innards will (continue to) be a sign of wealth. High end auto interior design, while currently dabbling with big silly (and obviously poorly designed) touchscreen interfaces, in an attempt to seem tesla-ish, will catch up as well. [1] https://www.traulsen.com/ https://www.traulsen.com/
- kristopolous 8y ago
  It's just a physical interaction layer though. Is there a market for designing this interface in software graphically, getting the code working, then sending the emulated interface off to get physical copies shipped. It comes as a device with a usb connector. You plug it in and it works just like the software emulation but as a physical object. No EE or embedded people required. A cheap software person could do this
- maxerickson 8y ago
  It's about the parts and assembly, not the engineering time. A couple million dollars of upfront cost is roughly irrelevant to the sticker price of a vehicle. For a low volume car like the Model 3, $3 million is already down to ~$12...
Causality1 8y ago
I've given up. I use a set of stick-on bluetooth buttons to control everything but the volume in the my current car. I suspect I'll be using them for the volume too in my next car.
JCharante 8y ago
> Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window Is this so? I used to work at a Dunkin Donuts, and the POS / register was entirely touchscreen, and I and everyone else developed muscle memory.
- specialist 8y ago
  How much did those buttons move after every software update?
trophycase 8y ago
It's also very much a part of the hardware as a service paradigm. Control the interface, control the device. If my Tesla has a touch screen push button start, it is trivial to disallow me to drive until I update the car software and add in some tracking "features" or what have you.
a3n 8y ago
Truck driver. Our in-truck communications/logging/gps terminals at this company are old-ish Qualcomm devices. About 1/3 of the controls are physical buttons, the rest are touch screen. Some screen output is duplicated with audio. The newer devices that I've seen are all touch screen and I dread that day. I'd rather reach over with muscle memory and press a physical button, while looking at something else like THE F-ing ROAD!
sixQuarks 8y ago
I own a Model 3 and I agree the interface for controlling simple/common actions such as wiper blades and temperature adjustments is terrible and dangerous. I often ask myself how older drivers can deal with it. However, I do think the model 3 interface was heavily influenced by their self-driving ambitions. The technology hasn't caught up to the design yet, and it's a bit dangerous.
gubbrora 8y ago
I have a big clunky deskphone. I have yet to make or receive a call on it. The desk real estate it occupies is a bigger cost to me than however many seconds I can eventually save.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  This is about things we actually use, and their bad usability when your senses decline with age. If you really used that clunky phone, you'd appreciate how at hand it is, and how fast it is to use compared to a cell phone, specially when you desk calls are short.
  - gubbrora 7y ago
    A lot of things that are actually used are used rarely. Maybe I will use that phone eventually. Optimization should take rare/casual usage into account.

by EricE 8y ago

synaesthesisx 8y ago

Think of it this way - imagine using an iPad/tablet while driving. Now imagine your grandfather using an iPad, while also driving. Unfortunately accessibility & haptics have been pushed to the backburner.

ngold 8y ago
Now imagine your grandfather trying to change the radio station on a touchscreen display while driving.

marnett 8y ago

Unfortunately I think it’s more about pricing as oppposed to better design paradigms. Replacing embedded system engineers with cheap java engineers? Yea that requires a screen.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
Similar to capacitive touch panels on appliances. You'd think this sci-fi look is more expensive to make, but it's actually cheaper. The "buttons" have no moving parts.
- tty2300 8y ago
  And should last longer, make it easier to clean and not get gunk stuck in it causing it to jam up.
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    Yes, that's the big selling point. And I agree for somme appliances it is great.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    It's possible to have a sealed membrane over a set of physical buttons.
    - tty2300 8y ago
      That's still hard to clean. I have a stove that has no physical buttons or knobs and I can wipe it clean with a cloth easily.
  - Moru 8y ago
    And make the driver look at a screen to adjust temperature / fan or whatever.
    - logicprog 8y ago
      I already have to look at the knobs in my car to see what I'm doing with them (or even find them in the first place). Is this true for anyone else? I'm reading this thread totally unable to understand what we are arguing about haha.
      - TeMPOraL 8y ago
        I don't think it's true for many others. The ability to operate a device without looking at the controls is one of the biggest features of old-school "dumb", physical controls. I guess you don't have to look at your feet to find the car pedals, or at your seat to find the gear lever and manual brake.
      - marcosdumay 8y ago
        Temperature settings have famously bad controllers. I guess it's because they are new, and car designers didn't have time to compete on quality of those yet. You can control the radio of any high-end 00's car without looking at the controls.
- rsync 8y ago
  "Similar to capacitive touch panels on appliances. You'd think this sci-fi look is more expensive to make, but it's actually cheaper." This is correct and will drive style and purchasing decisions for the affluent in the future, if it isn't already. A home full of wifi-connected "smart" appliances all (failing) to talk to one another will be a sign of poverty while a big hulking Traulsen[1] with no digital innards will (continue to) be a sign of wealth. High end auto interior design, while currently dabbling with big silly (and obviously poorly designed) touchscreen interfaces, in an attempt to seem tesla-ish, will catch up as well. [1] https://www.traulsen.com/ https://www.traulsen.com/
kristopolous 8y ago
It's just a physical interaction layer though. Is there a market for designing this interface in software graphically, getting the code working, then sending the emulated interface off to get physical copies shipped. It comes as a device with a usb connector. You plug it in and it works just like the software emulation but as a physical object. No EE or embedded people required. A cheap software person could do this
maxerickson 8y ago
It's about the parts and assembly, not the engineering time. A couple million dollars of upfront cost is roughly irrelevant to the sticker price of a vehicle. For a low volume car like the Model 3, $3 million is already down to ~$12...

Causality1 8y ago

I've given up. I use a set of stick-on bluetooth buttons to control everything but the volume in the my current car. I suspect I'll be using them for the volume too in my next car.

JCharante 8y ago

> Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window Is this so? I used to work at a Dunkin Donuts, and the POS / register was entirely touchscreen, and I and everyone else developed muscle memory.

specialist 8y ago
How much did those buttons move after every software update?

trophycase 8y ago

It's also very much a part of the hardware as a service paradigm. Control the interface, control the device. If my Tesla has a touch screen push button start, it is trivial to disallow me to drive until I update the car software and add in some tracking "features" or what have you.

a3n 8y ago

Truck driver. Our in-truck communications/logging/gps terminals at this company are old-ish Qualcomm devices. About 1/3 of the controls are physical buttons, the rest are touch screen. Some screen output is duplicated with audio. The newer devices that I've seen are all touch screen and I dread that day. I'd rather reach over with muscle memory and press a physical button, while looking at something else like THE F-ing ROAD!

sixQuarks 8y ago

I own a Model 3 and I agree the interface for controlling simple/common actions such as wiper blades and temperature adjustments is terrible and dangerous. I often ask myself how older drivers can deal with it. However, I do think the model 3 interface was heavily influenced by their self-driving ambitions. The technology hasn't caught up to the design yet, and it's a bit dangerous.

gubbrora 8y ago

I have a big clunky deskphone. I have yet to make or receive a call on it. The desk real estate it occupies is a bigger cost to me than however many seconds I can eventually save.

ASalazarMX 8y ago
This is about things we actually use, and their bad usability when your senses decline with age. If you really used that clunky phone, you'd appreciate how at hand it is, and how fast it is to use compared to a cell phone, specially when you desk calls are short.
- gubbrora 7y ago
  A lot of things that are actually used are used rarely. Maybe I will use that phone eventually. Optimization should take rare/casual usage into account.