6 ms·

FYI for Americans, it is generally illegal to change your locks and not provide the owner (or agent aka landlord) with a copy. It's their property, not yours,

FYI for Americans, it is generally illegal to change your locks and not provide the owner (or agent aka landlord) with a copy. It's their property, not yours, and depending on state/lease they have the right to have the locks drilled/replaced at YOUR expense because you are not allowed to lock an owner out of their property. There are only a few US states which have laws permitting tenants from changing locks and not notifying the owner or giving them a copy (CA, NJ are two). Other states permit tenant to change locks (or don't have explicit rules) but require the tenant to give a copy to the owner (like say NY). The reason why this is tricky is because in the case of an emergency if the owner of the property needs to make emergency repairs, but cannot because you have locked them out, depending on the law and the lease in question, you could be liable for all of the damage to the property since you barred the owner from making repairs. That could be a 5 or 6 digit lawsuit pretty quickly depending on the property, the emergency and if it's multi or single family. (Think burst pipe in a multi-family flooding other tenants.... very expensive very fast)

colek42 7y ago
If you need to get in a house you own in an emergency that could cost 100's of thousands of dollars why wouldn't you just break a window, or call a locksmith? I don't think the tenant would be responsible for these damages unless the incident was caused by their negligence.
- criley2 7y ago
  I'm not a lawyer but in many states these liability claims go through a system which determines the % of liability for each party. A tenant illegally locking their landlord out and causing delay of several hours for a time-sensitive emergency would almost assuredly get a lot more % liability blame than a tenant who properly gave their landlord a copy of the key and who was able to give access to the plumber immediately. Hopefully they have enough renters insurance to cover the claim and their insurance company will handle the court side of things when other tenants sue!
  - hugi 7y ago
    "A tenant illegally locking their landlord out". Where the fuck do you live, 11th century Europe?
    - umanwizard 7y ago
      Can you elaborate on what you’re talking about?
      - vraivroo 7y ago
        It's not legal for landlords to enter rented homes as they please, even in America.
        jdmichal 7y ago
        It's a common carve out in most states to allow immediate access for "emergency access", which is why everyone in the thread is discussing exactly that.
        criley2 7y ago
        This is false. It's up to state law but generally speaking landlords can enter the premises without warning in case of an emergency, and can otherwise enter the premises for nearly any reason (inspection, routine maintenance, showing prospective clients, etc) with a 24 hour notice. Some states may increase that 24 hour notice to 48 hours, but yes a property owner can enter their property. This is one of those cases where owners have rights too, and renters who want more rights should consider owning.
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    >A tenant illegally locking their landlord out... That's not the question at hand at all though. The question is what kind of liability you incur by legally locking your landlord out. IANAL, but I'd guess that if you change the locks in a state where it's not legal to do so you're totally hosed in terms of liability. I have no idea how liable and to what degree renter's insurance would cover you if you change the locks in a state that guarantees your right to do so.
- whttheuuu 7y ago
  You sir would be incorrect.
hugi 7y ago
In Iceland, if the owner of a rented apartment would request key access to his tenants apartment, well… That would be considered "batshit crazy". But it probably comes down to cultural differences, America is very authoritarian.
- thieving_magpie 7y ago
  Feudal and Authoritarian eh? Certainly not being dramatic over differing interpretations of property rights.
  - lovich 7y ago
    A:the poster didn't mention feudalism B: >differing interpretations of property rights The American interpretation is authoritarian. Just because it has a negative connotation doesn't make it untrue. The landlords are renting out a dwelling for someone, and because they are the authority of that land they get to enforce rules on who has access to it. That is authoritarian
    - sailfast 7y ago
      > But it probably comes down to cultural differences, America is very authoritarian. That has nothing to do with the property owner but "America" based on my read, but I do appreciate this interpretation of the OP. If that's their meaning, I could see why the word comes up.
      - lovich 7y ago
        You know, I think my interpretation was wrong after re-reading, but I dont think I would disagree still. America has a very strong cultural thread of authoritarianism. You see it in places like a cops word being given greater weight in court than a citizens, or how people treat rights as something the government has to give you rather than the government taking rights from you
        7y ago
rcthompson 7y ago
I live in CA, and my lease has a clause specifically prohibiting changing/adding locks to the doors. I wonder if the CA law invalidates this clause. It's not a problem for this lease because my landlord is very hands-off - I've never even met them, only communicated via email. But I'll definitely be paying attention to clauses like this in the future, especially if there's a "smart" lock on the unit.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  Most leases are just canned boiler plate filled with completely unenforceable clauses. A lease prohibiting changing the locks would give the landlords insurance agent palpitations.
vraivroo 7y ago
It's also not legal for landlords to enter other people's homes at will simply because they own it.
- criley2 7y ago
  With a 24 hour notice (or 48), yes it is legal. They can post notice and come by merely to inspect the state of the property.
  - HEHENE 7y ago
    This is not true in California. I had a landlord who wanted to enter all apartments to inspect for evidence of pets (someone had seen a cat inside the building) and I told them exactly where they could shove it. (Paraphrased from CA Civ Code 1954) A landlord may enter the dwelling unit only in the following cases: - In case of emergency. - To make necessary or agreed repairs, exhibit the property, or perform move in/out inspections. - When the tenant has abandoned or surrendered the premises. - Pursuant to court order.
    - criley2 7y ago
      If I were your landlord and you refused, I would sue for violating a no-pets clause in the lease to get a court order to allow the inspection. Or perhaps just initiate eviction proceedings for the lease violation. It is what it is.

colek42 7y ago

If you need to get in a house you own in an emergency that could cost 100's of thousands of dollars why wouldn't you just break a window, or call a locksmith? I don't think the tenant would be responsible for these damages unless the incident was caused by their negligence.

criley2 7y ago
I'm not a lawyer but in many states these liability claims go through a system which determines the % of liability for each party. A tenant illegally locking their landlord out and causing delay of several hours for a time-sensitive emergency would almost assuredly get a lot more % liability blame than a tenant who properly gave their landlord a copy of the key and who was able to give access to the plumber immediately. Hopefully they have enough renters insurance to cover the claim and their insurance company will handle the court side of things when other tenants sue!
- hugi 7y ago
  "A tenant illegally locking their landlord out". Where the fuck do you live, 11th century Europe?
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    Can you elaborate on what you’re talking about?
    - vraivroo 7y ago
      It's not legal for landlords to enter rented homes as they please, even in America.
      - jdmichal 7y ago
        It's a common carve out in most states to allow immediate access for "emergency access", which is why everyone in the thread is discussing exactly that.
      - criley2 7y ago
        This is false. It's up to state law but generally speaking landlords can enter the premises without warning in case of an emergency, and can otherwise enter the premises for nearly any reason (inspection, routine maintenance, showing prospective clients, etc) with a 24 hour notice. Some states may increase that 24 hour notice to 48 hours, but yes a property owner can enter their property. This is one of those cases where owners have rights too, and renters who want more rights should consider owning.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  >A tenant illegally locking their landlord out... That's not the question at hand at all though. The question is what kind of liability you incur by legally locking your landlord out. IANAL, but I'd guess that if you change the locks in a state where it's not legal to do so you're totally hosed in terms of liability. I have no idea how liable and to what degree renter's insurance would cover you if you change the locks in a state that guarantees your right to do so.
whttheuuu 7y ago
You sir would be incorrect.

hugi 7y ago

In Iceland, if the owner of a rented apartment would request key access to his tenants apartment, well… That would be considered "batshit crazy". But it probably comes down to cultural differences, America is very authoritarian.

thieving_magpie 7y ago
Feudal and Authoritarian eh? Certainly not being dramatic over differing interpretations of property rights.
- lovich 7y ago
  A:the poster didn't mention feudalism B: >differing interpretations of property rights The American interpretation is authoritarian. Just because it has a negative connotation doesn't make it untrue. The landlords are renting out a dwelling for someone, and because they are the authority of that land they get to enforce rules on who has access to it. That is authoritarian
  - sailfast 7y ago
    > But it probably comes down to cultural differences, America is very authoritarian. That has nothing to do with the property owner but "America" based on my read, but I do appreciate this interpretation of the OP. If that's their meaning, I could see why the word comes up.
    - lovich 7y ago
      You know, I think my interpretation was wrong after re-reading, but I dont think I would disagree still. America has a very strong cultural thread of authoritarianism. You see it in places like a cops word being given greater weight in court than a citizens, or how people treat rights as something the government has to give you rather than the government taking rights from you
      - 7y ago

rcthompson 7y ago

I live in CA, and my lease has a clause specifically prohibiting changing/adding locks to the doors. I wonder if the CA law invalidates this clause. It's not a problem for this lease because my landlord is very hands-off - I've never even met them, only communicated via email. But I'll definitely be paying attention to clauses like this in the future, especially if there's a "smart" lock on the unit.

Gibbon1 7y ago
Most leases are just canned boiler plate filled with completely unenforceable clauses. A lease prohibiting changing the locks would give the landlords insurance agent palpitations.

vraivroo 7y ago

It's also not legal for landlords to enter other people's homes at will simply because they own it.

criley2 7y ago
With a 24 hour notice (or 48), yes it is legal. They can post notice and come by merely to inspect the state of the property.
- HEHENE 7y ago
  This is not true in California. I had a landlord who wanted to enter all apartments to inspect for evidence of pets (someone had seen a cat inside the building) and I told them exactly where they could shove it. (Paraphrased from CA Civ Code 1954) A landlord may enter the dwelling unit only in the following cases: - In case of emergency. - To make necessary or agreed repairs, exhibit the property, or perform move in/out inspections. - When the tenant has abandoned or surrendered the premises. - Pursuant to court order.
  - criley2 7y ago
    If I were your landlord and you refused, I would sue for violating a no-pets clause in the lease to get a court order to allow the inspection. Or perhaps just initiate eviction proceedings for the lease violation. It is what it is.