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At least one aggrevating factor seems to me to be the fault of the airlines. They were so busy adding fees to checked-in luggage that everybody now tries to st

At least one aggrevating factor seems to me to be the fault of the airlines. They were so busy adding fees to checked-in luggage that everybody now tries to stuff everything into their carry-on. If the majority of people's luggage was checked in, it would not make the problem go away, but some selfish idiot running out with his laptop under his arm is a lot different than the same idiot trying to get his laptop AND his oversized wheelie bag off the plane.

yardstick 7y ago
Even if checked-in fees went away, I would still try to go cabin luggage only for short trips away (anything under a week) because it is significantly quicker than waiting for luggage to be unloaded etc. And for what it’s worth, I use a backpack, so it’s often stored at my feet due to locker space pseudo reserved for hard cases.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  On many budget carriers, a personal item that fits under the seat is actually all you get for free. You have to pay extra for a carry on bag.
  - deanclatworthy 7y ago
    Not in Europe.
    - ovi256 7y ago
      Meanwhile, in real life Europe, check out the practices of low-cost carriers like Wizzair and Ryanair.
      - systemtest 7y ago
        Wizzair was so expensive with carry-on luggage that I ended up putting most of my clothes in a cardboard box and shipping it to the hotel using DHL. My small backpack was free and I used it for toiletries and two days of clothes.
    - kingosticks 7y ago
      Yes with Ryanair and Wizzair (in Europe.
- alistairSH 7y ago
  While that is certainly true for some travelers (myself included), some passengers would prefer to check their luggage and not wheel/carry it around, struggle to lift it into the overhead bin, etc. When I travel for work, I'm always surprised at the number of coworkers who happily check their baggage.
briandear 7y ago
They raised luggage fees, but haven’t ticket prices actually declined when adjusted for inflation? The only key difference now seems to be that airlines are more à la carte than they used to be. And the road warrior types are already getting a free checked bag with their credit card or airline status. However the size restrictions really ought to be better enforced. There are some massive bags getting on board many flights.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  They're playing extreme shenanigans with the ticket price, to segment the pricing as much as possible. This à la carte approach has side effects - in particular, it strongly incentivizes people flying on their own account (as opposed to those flying on company money) to try and get out of as many of the menu items as possible. Traveling with a ridiculously inconvenient set of oversized carry-ons to avoid checked luggage fee is a standard practice at this point. Airlines should be responsible for upgrading safety measures to offset the danger they create with their business tricks.
LoSboccacc 7y ago
there's also a major shift in relative worth of the hand luggage. what was small value electronic and underwear is now thousand dollars worth in devices with various leases and terms attached that represent a significant value for the owner. this is not exculpating the behavior of course, but highlights something has changed in this area at least. it's likely that this will result in the overhead containers having locks that are engaged for as long as the slides are armed.
AnaniasAnanas 7y ago
I try to keep my luggage in the cabin when possible instead of checking it in because I do not want my luggage to be damaged as they tend to be very careless with the handling.
mihaifm 7y ago
Also the size of cabin luggage is starting to get out of hand, and there’s only minor attempts to mitigate the problem. During my last two flights airlines were offering to check-in luggage for free for those who volunteered, yet almost nobody did, people still preferred to carry huge cases in the cabin just for the convenience factor. Without some stricter rules people will always choose the easy way.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  There are at least three factors making people strongly prefer carrying to checking in. One, you can't "lose" a carry-on, unlike check-in. Two, obviously, tickets tend to be cheaper without check-in luggage. Three, you don't have to wait ridiculous amount of time for the luggage (IME it's usually 10-15 minutes, but once I waited an hour), you can just grab your carry-on and leave the airport. If it was just the price, or just the fear of lost baggage, it would be much easier. But with all three, the incentives are all aligned against check-in. So as you say, it would require stricter enforcement of rules to fix. And/or much stricter rules. And maybe fixing the luggage pick-up times would help. EDIT: fourth factor I just remembered. If you opt for checked-in luggage, you suddenly have to arrive 60-120 minutes earlier and spend that time in a queue. Adding pick-up time, that's 20% of your waking day spent just dealing with luggage.
  - notacoward 7y ago
    Another factor in the US (and often copied by other countries) is the absurd security-theater restrictions on what you can bring with you. If you need/want to bring several types of creams, lotions, gels, etc. you're out of luck. Ditto if you need/want to bring any tools with questionable points or edges. Or several other categories of items you can find on placards at every security bottleneck (each one a worse security problem than what they purportedly seek to prevent). I don't absolutely need any of these things, but I don't like being caught flat-footed without some of them when I'm on the road for a week or more each month, so I end up checking bags. > you suddenly have to arrive 60-120 minutes earlier That seems like a bit of an exaggeration. I travel a fair bit. The worst bag-checkin delay I've ever encountered was barely over half an hour. The security lines are routinely longer than that, and everyone carrying huge roll-aways makes those worse. Those, or the lines to re-book when flights are changed, are the real reasons to arrive early.
seymore_12 7y ago
At least in Europe, budget airlines (and not only them), during online checking, purposely assign seats rows away for people on the booking, if you are not travelling alone. You have to pay additional fee to be seated with your cotravellers. Many people don't take this option. Now, imagine emergency evacuation situation. Most people will gladly dump the luggage, laptops etc., but would you leave the plane, knowing that your wife, kids, mother-in-law (maybe not a good example) are few rows behind and you are not sure if they are Ok. No, you will stay, trying to help them and create congestion. Unfortunately, it will take an accident listing this type of "stupid" behavior as contributing cause for fatalities, in order for legislation to prevent the moron MBAs that decided to monetize their seats, extorting people to pay more so that they can sit together, to stop doing this.
- DoctorOetker 7y ago
  I haven't flown for over a decade, so I don't know if it's true (about artificially spreading people unless you pay more), but regardless if it happens today or not, it seems important to prevent this practice from occuring for the hypothetical reason you specify.
  - seymore_12 7y ago
    https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/03/ryanairs-paid-for-seating-policy-puts-profits-before-passenger-safety/ https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/03/ryanairs-paid-for-seati...

yardstick 7y ago

Even if checked-in fees went away, I would still try to go cabin luggage only for short trips away (anything under a week) because it is significantly quicker than waiting for luggage to be unloaded etc. And for what it’s worth, I use a backpack, so it’s often stored at my feet due to locker space pseudo reserved for hard cases.

jjeaff 7y ago
On many budget carriers, a personal item that fits under the seat is actually all you get for free. You have to pay extra for a carry on bag.
- deanclatworthy 7y ago
  Not in Europe.
  - ovi256 7y ago
    Meanwhile, in real life Europe, check out the practices of low-cost carriers like Wizzair and Ryanair.
    - systemtest 7y ago
      Wizzair was so expensive with carry-on luggage that I ended up putting most of my clothes in a cardboard box and shipping it to the hotel using DHL. My small backpack was free and I used it for toiletries and two days of clothes.
  - kingosticks 7y ago
    Yes with Ryanair and Wizzair (in Europe.
alistairSH 7y ago
While that is certainly true for some travelers (myself included), some passengers would prefer to check their luggage and not wheel/carry it around, struggle to lift it into the overhead bin, etc. When I travel for work, I'm always surprised at the number of coworkers who happily check their baggage.

briandear 7y ago

They raised luggage fees, but haven’t ticket prices actually declined when adjusted for inflation? The only key difference now seems to be that airlines are more à la carte than they used to be. And the road warrior types are already getting a free checked bag with their credit card or airline status. However the size restrictions really ought to be better enforced. There are some massive bags getting on board many flights.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
They're playing extreme shenanigans with the ticket price, to segment the pricing as much as possible. This à la carte approach has side effects - in particular, it strongly incentivizes people flying on their own account (as opposed to those flying on company money) to try and get out of as many of the menu items as possible. Traveling with a ridiculously inconvenient set of oversized carry-ons to avoid checked luggage fee is a standard practice at this point. Airlines should be responsible for upgrading safety measures to offset the danger they create with their business tricks.

LoSboccacc 7y ago

there's also a major shift in relative worth of the hand luggage. what was small value electronic and underwear is now thousand dollars worth in devices with various leases and terms attached that represent a significant value for the owner. this is not exculpating the behavior of course, but highlights something has changed in this area at least. it's likely that this will result in the overhead containers having locks that are engaged for as long as the slides are armed.

AnaniasAnanas 7y ago

I try to keep my luggage in the cabin when possible instead of checking it in because I do not want my luggage to be damaged as they tend to be very careless with the handling.

mihaifm 7y ago

Also the size of cabin luggage is starting to get out of hand, and there’s only minor attempts to mitigate the problem. During my last two flights airlines were offering to check-in luggage for free for those who volunteered, yet almost nobody did, people still preferred to carry huge cases in the cabin just for the convenience factor. Without some stricter rules people will always choose the easy way.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
There are at least three factors making people strongly prefer carrying to checking in. One, you can't "lose" a carry-on, unlike check-in. Two, obviously, tickets tend to be cheaper without check-in luggage. Three, you don't have to wait ridiculous amount of time for the luggage (IME it's usually 10-15 minutes, but once I waited an hour), you can just grab your carry-on and leave the airport. If it was just the price, or just the fear of lost baggage, it would be much easier. But with all three, the incentives are all aligned against check-in. So as you say, it would require stricter enforcement of rules to fix. And/or much stricter rules. And maybe fixing the luggage pick-up times would help. EDIT: fourth factor I just remembered. If you opt for checked-in luggage, you suddenly have to arrive 60-120 minutes earlier and spend that time in a queue. Adding pick-up time, that's 20% of your waking day spent just dealing with luggage.
- notacoward 7y ago
  Another factor in the US (and often copied by other countries) is the absurd security-theater restrictions on what you can bring with you. If you need/want to bring several types of creams, lotions, gels, etc. you're out of luck. Ditto if you need/want to bring any tools with questionable points or edges. Or several other categories of items you can find on placards at every security bottleneck (each one a worse security problem than what they purportedly seek to prevent). I don't absolutely need any of these things, but I don't like being caught flat-footed without some of them when I'm on the road for a week or more each month, so I end up checking bags. > you suddenly have to arrive 60-120 minutes earlier That seems like a bit of an exaggeration. I travel a fair bit. The worst bag-checkin delay I've ever encountered was barely over half an hour. The security lines are routinely longer than that, and everyone carrying huge roll-aways makes those worse. Those, or the lines to re-book when flights are changed, are the real reasons to arrive early.

seymore_12 7y ago

At least in Europe, budget airlines (and not only them), during online checking, purposely assign seats rows away for people on the booking, if you are not travelling alone. You have to pay additional fee to be seated with your cotravellers. Many people don't take this option. Now, imagine emergency evacuation situation. Most people will gladly dump the luggage, laptops etc., but would you leave the plane, knowing that your wife, kids, mother-in-law (maybe not a good example) are few rows behind and you are not sure if they are Ok. No, you will stay, trying to help them and create congestion. Unfortunately, it will take an accident listing this type of "stupid" behavior as contributing cause for fatalities, in order for legislation to prevent the moron MBAs that decided to monetize their seats, extorting people to pay more so that they can sit together, to stop doing this.

DoctorOetker 7y ago
I haven't flown for over a decade, so I don't know if it's true (about artificially spreading people unless you pay more), but regardless if it happens today or not, it seems important to prevent this practice from occuring for the hypothetical reason you specify.
- seymore_12 7y ago
  https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/03/ryanairs-paid-for-seating-policy-puts-profits-before-passenger-safety/ https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/03/ryanairs-paid-for-seati...