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> A Chromebook with all three operating systems running at once is also darn useful for an ordinary Jane or Joe. For example, I can edit images using Linux GIMP

> A Chromebook with all three operating systems running at once is also darn useful for an ordinary Jane or Joe. For example, I can edit images using Linux GIMP and write with LibreOffice Writer while looking at pictures using Android Pinterest and simultaneously check my Gmail in Chrome OS. It's all good. For example, I can edit images using Linux GIMP and write with LibreOffice Writer while looking at pictures using Firefox on Linux and simultaneously check my Gmail in Firefox on Linux. It's all good.

jklinger410 7y ago
ChromeOS adding almost zero value here. Faster Gapps? Kinda. The explorer is better for drive files, for sure. Can unlock with my Android phone. Cool, I guess? Can't think of any other reason to boot to ChromeOS.
- sempron64 7y ago
  ChromeOS power management is amazing, and makes 8-12 hours of battery life while using the browser a reality. Firefox saps the battery incredibly quickly, though I prefer to use it when that's not an issue. For me, the battery life is a huge technical value add, and is why I prefer to use linux via crouton on my acer c720 over installing it directly. I haven't tried the new Android app support but I think that will be huge as well for mobile-centric consumers.
- tdb7893 7y ago
  If you're mainly just going to be using a browser (which is true most of the time for me) I don't know why you would want to boot anything else. At the end of the day most operating systems I use are interchangeable for my workflow so unless you need a specific tool there's rarely a reason to use over over another.
  - jklinger410 7y ago
    >I don't know why you would want to boot anything else The privacy and convenience Firefox offers me over Chrome, to start. Containers, etc. Programs that run as programs but not Chrome Apps (Signal, Email, ETC)
- SEJeff 7y ago
  It is very secure. A lot of the Kernel Self Protection project patches that Kees Cook and other push into Linux upstream start out as patches they deploy to ChromeOS to keep users happy and secure. Look it up.
- tapoxi 7y ago
  ChromeOS is an incredibly secure and simple base. There are a few Linux distributions that act like it (Fedora Silverblue, Endless OS) but they're not ideal for everyday use yet.
  - freedomben 7y ago
    Why do you think Fedora Silverblue isn't ideal for everyday use? I'm going to try out F30 Silverblue here pretty soon, but I had heard that is was great, so I'm just curious what problems you've run into.
    - tapoxi 7y ago
      For example, the PyCharm Flatpak has difficulty understanding the window scaling setting I use, and appears unreadable. Some RPMs wouldn't install because they needed to write to /opt, but that may have been fixed. I had difficulty using external repos. I'm running normal Fedora 30 now and tried Silverblue during the Fedora 28/Fedora 29 release cycles. I hear it's getting better but I'll give it another year or so.
      - freedomben 7y ago
        Makes sense, thanks. My buddy said that installing RPMs was easy, but the more I hear the more I think that is bad information :-) The Silverblue docs seem to imply that you're really going against the grain by doing that and that it may not work. You also have to reboot after every install IIRC. I'm still gonna try it out but I may be on regular F30 pretty soon.
- Osiris 7y ago
  No local state. You can do a full wipe then login and all your settings, apps, data are there (because they are in the cloud, not the device). Wipe your Linux partition and tell me how long until you have your computer back to how you had it. Also, I love Chrome OS for my kids laptops because I don't have to worry about viruses or malware. In the case, I purposefully want a less feature rich OS.
  - fenwick67 7y ago
    The first paragraph sounds like you are describing using Firefox sync or chrome with a Google login.
    - forgot-my-pw 7y ago
      It is, but more. When it's tied into the OS, wiping data is much easier. Resetting / removing your profile just takes seconds. It's a great OS too to give your parents who only need it for web browsing. Less maintenance and tech support.
    - jethro_tell 7y ago
      Not really, because you can factory reset, cross a border and log back in in 10 minutes and everything is up to speedish. It's not your threat model but it's someone's threat model and a chromebook does that better than anyone else, and your mom can do it.
      - laurentoget 7y ago
        I wish there was a way to do this without being locked in with Google as the backend.
        markstos 7y ago
        Chromebooks are locked to using Google for authentication, but you don't have to use most Google services once logge din. Now you can even use an alternate Android or Linux browser instead of Chrome.
- carlosdp 7y ago
  Battery, browsers are a huge power hog and ChromeOS is basically just Chrome as an OS ui, so it's heavily optimized and running a browser tab doesn't effect battery as much as it would on a Mac, for example. I use a Pixelbook now as my primary dev machine and compile a decently heavy Rust codebase in the linux env all day long and the battery doesn't die. If I move compilation to a cloud-based IDE, it'll last even longer.
  - bduerst 7y ago
    Do you use crouton or have you switched to the linux containers?
    - carlosdp 7y ago
      I'm using Crostini, so yea I'm using the container
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - jklinger410 7y ago
    >as much as it would on a Mac We're comparing Linux to Chrome OS, not Mac. I wiped my CB and loaded Gallium OS and have yet to see any significant battery depletion. At most I'm sacrificing some battery for a whole host of other tools, so it's a pretty decent trade.
    - carlosdp 7y ago
      I don't think this is meant to attract people who are ok with managing a Linux distro as their desktop today, I think it's for people like me that need a Unix environment for development, but want something that "just works" for rest-of-life stuff. Today, in the tech world at least, that need is largely filled by Macs.
      - ngcc_hk 7y ago
        Totally agreed. Just today compared the cost to get a mac air 2018 16 gb 512g with asus s. Just double the costs. Not sure chromebook can help.
- shubhamharnal 7y ago
  I'll give you one perspective: a lot of enterprise apps are developed for Android as well, though not at all for Linux. While using Linux, I may not be able to access my organization's Exchange server from Linux ( at least not without running quite a few hoops ) OR I can install one of the myriad suite of enterprise apps for Android that let you access your enterprise exchange. Similarly, 2FA token generation apps for the enterprise are not all made for linux but you can install an android app for it. Idea is: use linux for your workflow, android apps for connectivity to your organization's walled garden.
  - jklinger410 7y ago
    I was never able to get android apps to install onto my Chrome OS.
- kllrnohj 7y ago
  > ChromeOS adding almost zero value here. Functional hardware accelerated video playback is a pretty big value to have (neither firefox nor chrome supports hwa video decoding on linux, see https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Hardware_video_acceleration#Application_support https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Hardware_video_accelera... ). It also has a much better system compositor than X11, actually shaking off the broken legacy cruft that Linux distros seem determined to cling on to. You can get some of this on "regular" linux with projects like https://github.com/intel/ozone-wayland https://github.com/intel/ozone-wayland but the state of graphics & video support on Linux continues to be a joke (relevant xkcd from 10 years ago https://xkcd.com/619/ https://xkcd.com/619/ )
- mkozlows 7y ago
  Great high-DPI (which Linux is still not great at); great trackpad support (ditto).
antsar 7y ago
But how will Google show you ads based on those pictures? Major oversight on your part.
cbolton 7y ago
Maybe Pinterest is a poor example, but there are Android apps that offer functionality unavailable in Linux and Chrome. For example I used Word for Android to edit a Word document with suggestions and comments (could not do that in Office 365 apparently). Actually I'm pretty sure there are many Android apps that offer functionality unavailable on Windows and OS X. Also, it's nice to have the possibility to mess around with Debian in the VM, yet always have a browser available and with the best security.
- hedora 7y ago
  > always have a browser available and with the best security. But it won’t be secure, because the whole point of Chrome is to feed your data back to Google. Being able to wipe the disk, install some other Linux, and run an (ephemeral?) android emulator in a sandbox would be nice though.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    This is a peculiar definition of security advocated by people who think Google is the enemy. For other people, Google having some access to your data is no more a security breach than your bank seeing your bank transactions or Kaiser having your medical records. (Internal controls do matter for defense in depth, but that's different.)
    - ngcc_hk 7y ago
      Not sure about this line of argument. Bank has my data but only those trusted my transaction with them. Google is much more general in nature. Storage is not a transaction. Safety deposit does not mean the bank shall open it already or any time they like without telling me and ask for permission.
  - cbolton 7y ago
    > But it won’t be secure, because the whole point of Chrome is to feed your data back to Google. I trust Google more than other companies to handle my data with care. Pragmatically speaking, I think it's more likely to get hacked with a ransomware on Windows or OS X, than to suffer of <something> because of the data Google has on you. I'm not even sure what this hypothetical something is? Also, the amount of data Google gets specifically from Chrome OS users is negligible, compared to what they get through other means such as GMail (which Chrome OS users presumably use already).
ar_lan 7y ago
But can you watch Netflix?
- TallGuyShort 7y ago
  Watching Santa Clarita Diet on Fedora as I type this. Just requires Chrome.
- penagwin 7y ago
  The Netflix DRM stuff has been mostly solved at this point. Most of the modern distros + chrome will work just fine.
  - ar_lan 7y ago
    Oh nice, that's great to hear! This was not really a deal breaker for me as I mostly use my laptop for work, but it was definitely frustrating when I was a student and used my laptop for everything.
- swebs 7y ago
  Yes, for about 4 years now
  - ar_lan 7y ago
    I don't believe you. Maybe some obscure distro, but I tried multiple back in 2015/2016 and couldn't get it to work without some strange package to attempt to install Silverlight.
jayd16 7y ago
Ok, what turnkey Linux laptop with a touch screen (for Android games) can I go to Best buy and pick up today?
- ikeboy 7y ago
  Dell XPS developer edition
  - jayd16 7y ago
    I can't actually find a link to buy these any more.
    - ikeboy 7y ago
      You can get on dell.com. Don't know about in store.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- solarkraft 7y ago
  The Best Buy qualifier makes it a lot harder. If you're willing to let that go, System 76 and Purism sell amazing devices with not only good Linux distros pre-installed, but also as much free software (close to 100%) throughout the whole stack, which is a real benefit to security and freedom. If you weaken "turnkey" a bit to include installation you'll find that most Laptops on sale today will run the popular Linux distributions flawlessly.
DonHopkins 7y ago
The idea that "an ordinary Jane or Joe" would want to use GIMP is laughable. When a raving Linux evangelist publishes a fawning article about how it's actually a "good thing" that GIMP has lost its User eXperience (UX) maintainer, is that really a sign that GIMP is finally on the right track for "an ordinary Jane or Joe" to easily use? https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-gimps-bad-news-could-be-good-news/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-gimps-bad-news-coul... >The GIMP's bad news could be good news >The GIMP has lost its User eXperience (UX) maintainer. Jack Wallen thinks this could be good news for one of the most powerful open-source image editing tools. >This month, the GIMP lost its User eXperience (UX) maintainer. This is important. Why? Because, over all, the UX of Gimp has always had a very bad rap. People don't like it. I should preface this by saying 99% of the graphics that I do are done in GIMP (all of my TechRepublic images, all my book covers... everything). I've always been a big fan of the platform. That being said, it can't be denied that an overwhelming majority of people do not find the GIMP experience to be positive. I love this spit-take worthy quote, showcasing the author's extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome: >"GIMP is really just a proper UX maintainer away from graphic design domination" Look out Photoshop! As soon as GIMP finally finds that one proper UX maintainer with infinite patience and leadership abilities and free time (and a trust fund to live off of), who manages to convince all the GIMP developers working for free on their own time to stop bickering and fucking around and for the first time in history drop the pet projects they're doing and follow the UX genius's innovative new directions and disruptive sweeping designs to make GIMP easy to use, Adobe's doooooooomed I tell you!
- freedomben 7y ago
  I think your hate for GIMP blinded you to their point. There are plenty of useful apps that "an ordinary Jane or Joe" could find useful. Substitute any of those for GIMP if you don't think the average user would use it. My dad (not a technical person) uses Pinta, Libre Office, RhythmBox, and many other apps on his Ubuntu machine every day.

jklinger410 7y ago

ChromeOS adding almost zero value here. Faster Gapps? Kinda. The explorer is better for drive files, for sure. Can unlock with my Android phone. Cool, I guess? Can't think of any other reason to boot to ChromeOS.

sempron64 7y ago
ChromeOS power management is amazing, and makes 8-12 hours of battery life while using the browser a reality. Firefox saps the battery incredibly quickly, though I prefer to use it when that's not an issue. For me, the battery life is a huge technical value add, and is why I prefer to use linux via crouton on my acer c720 over installing it directly. I haven't tried the new Android app support but I think that will be huge as well for mobile-centric consumers.
tdb7893 7y ago
If you're mainly just going to be using a browser (which is true most of the time for me) I don't know why you would want to boot anything else. At the end of the day most operating systems I use are interchangeable for my workflow so unless you need a specific tool there's rarely a reason to use over over another.
- jklinger410 7y ago
  >I don't know why you would want to boot anything else The privacy and convenience Firefox offers me over Chrome, to start. Containers, etc. Programs that run as programs but not Chrome Apps (Signal, Email, ETC)
SEJeff 7y ago
It is very secure. A lot of the Kernel Self Protection project patches that Kees Cook and other push into Linux upstream start out as patches they deploy to ChromeOS to keep users happy and secure. Look it up.
tapoxi 7y ago
ChromeOS is an incredibly secure and simple base. There are a few Linux distributions that act like it (Fedora Silverblue, Endless OS) but they're not ideal for everyday use yet.
- freedomben 7y ago
  Why do you think Fedora Silverblue isn't ideal for everyday use? I'm going to try out F30 Silverblue here pretty soon, but I had heard that is was great, so I'm just curious what problems you've run into.
  - tapoxi 7y ago
    For example, the PyCharm Flatpak has difficulty understanding the window scaling setting I use, and appears unreadable. Some RPMs wouldn't install because they needed to write to /opt, but that may have been fixed. I had difficulty using external repos. I'm running normal Fedora 30 now and tried Silverblue during the Fedora 28/Fedora 29 release cycles. I hear it's getting better but I'll give it another year or so.
    - freedomben 7y ago
      Makes sense, thanks. My buddy said that installing RPMs was easy, but the more I hear the more I think that is bad information :-) The Silverblue docs seem to imply that you're really going against the grain by doing that and that it may not work. You also have to reboot after every install IIRC. I'm still gonna try it out but I may be on regular F30 pretty soon.
Osiris 7y ago
No local state. You can do a full wipe then login and all your settings, apps, data are there (because they are in the cloud, not the device). Wipe your Linux partition and tell me how long until you have your computer back to how you had it. Also, I love Chrome OS for my kids laptops because I don't have to worry about viruses or malware. In the case, I purposefully want a less feature rich OS.
- fenwick67 7y ago
  The first paragraph sounds like you are describing using Firefox sync or chrome with a Google login.
  - forgot-my-pw 7y ago
    It is, but more. When it's tied into the OS, wiping data is much easier. Resetting / removing your profile just takes seconds. It's a great OS too to give your parents who only need it for web browsing. Less maintenance and tech support.
  - jethro_tell 7y ago
    Not really, because you can factory reset, cross a border and log back in in 10 minutes and everything is up to speedish. It's not your threat model but it's someone's threat model and a chromebook does that better than anyone else, and your mom can do it.
    - laurentoget 7y ago
      I wish there was a way to do this without being locked in with Google as the backend.
      - markstos 7y ago
        Chromebooks are locked to using Google for authentication, but you don't have to use most Google services once logge din. Now you can even use an alternate Android or Linux browser instead of Chrome.
carlosdp 7y ago
Battery, browsers are a huge power hog and ChromeOS is basically just Chrome as an OS ui, so it's heavily optimized and running a browser tab doesn't effect battery as much as it would on a Mac, for example. I use a Pixelbook now as my primary dev machine and compile a decently heavy Rust codebase in the linux env all day long and the battery doesn't die. If I move compilation to a cloud-based IDE, it'll last even longer.
- bduerst 7y ago
  Do you use crouton or have you switched to the linux containers?
  - carlosdp 7y ago
    I'm using Crostini, so yea I'm using the container
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jklinger410 7y ago
  >as much as it would on a Mac We're comparing Linux to Chrome OS, not Mac. I wiped my CB and loaded Gallium OS and have yet to see any significant battery depletion. At most I'm sacrificing some battery for a whole host of other tools, so it's a pretty decent trade.
  - carlosdp 7y ago
    I don't think this is meant to attract people who are ok with managing a Linux distro as their desktop today, I think it's for people like me that need a Unix environment for development, but want something that "just works" for rest-of-life stuff. Today, in the tech world at least, that need is largely filled by Macs.
    - ngcc_hk 7y ago
      Totally agreed. Just today compared the cost to get a mac air 2018 16 gb 512g with asus s. Just double the costs. Not sure chromebook can help.
shubhamharnal 7y ago
I'll give you one perspective: a lot of enterprise apps are developed for Android as well, though not at all for Linux. While using Linux, I may not be able to access my organization's Exchange server from Linux ( at least not without running quite a few hoops ) OR I can install one of the myriad suite of enterprise apps for Android that let you access your enterprise exchange. Similarly, 2FA token generation apps for the enterprise are not all made for linux but you can install an android app for it. Idea is: use linux for your workflow, android apps for connectivity to your organization's walled garden.
- jklinger410 7y ago
  I was never able to get android apps to install onto my Chrome OS.
kllrnohj 7y ago
> ChromeOS adding almost zero value here. Functional hardware accelerated video playback is a pretty big value to have (neither firefox nor chrome supports hwa video decoding on linux, see https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Hardware_video_acceleration#Application_support https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Hardware_video_accelera... ). It also has a much better system compositor than X11, actually shaking off the broken legacy cruft that Linux distros seem determined to cling on to. You can get some of this on "regular" linux with projects like https://github.com/intel/ozone-wayland https://github.com/intel/ozone-wayland but the state of graphics & video support on Linux continues to be a joke (relevant xkcd from 10 years ago https://xkcd.com/619/ https://xkcd.com/619/ )
mkozlows 7y ago
Great high-DPI (which Linux is still not great at); great trackpad support (ditto).

antsar 7y ago

But how will Google show you ads based on those pictures? Major oversight on your part.

cbolton 7y ago

Maybe Pinterest is a poor example, but there are Android apps that offer functionality unavailable in Linux and Chrome. For example I used Word for Android to edit a Word document with suggestions and comments (could not do that in Office 365 apparently). Actually I'm pretty sure there are many Android apps that offer functionality unavailable on Windows and OS X. Also, it's nice to have the possibility to mess around with Debian in the VM, yet always have a browser available and with the best security.

hedora 7y ago
> always have a browser available and with the best security. But it won’t be secure, because the whole point of Chrome is to feed your data back to Google. Being able to wipe the disk, install some other Linux, and run an (ephemeral?) android emulator in a sandbox would be nice though.
- skybrian 7y ago
  This is a peculiar definition of security advocated by people who think Google is the enemy. For other people, Google having some access to your data is no more a security breach than your bank seeing your bank transactions or Kaiser having your medical records. (Internal controls do matter for defense in depth, but that's different.)
  - ngcc_hk 7y ago
    Not sure about this line of argument. Bank has my data but only those trusted my transaction with them. Google is much more general in nature. Storage is not a transaction. Safety deposit does not mean the bank shall open it already or any time they like without telling me and ask for permission.
- cbolton 7y ago
  > But it won’t be secure, because the whole point of Chrome is to feed your data back to Google. I trust Google more than other companies to handle my data with care. Pragmatically speaking, I think it's more likely to get hacked with a ransomware on Windows or OS X, than to suffer of <something> because of the data Google has on you. I'm not even sure what this hypothetical something is? Also, the amount of data Google gets specifically from Chrome OS users is negligible, compared to what they get through other means such as GMail (which Chrome OS users presumably use already).

ar_lan 7y ago

But can you watch Netflix?

TallGuyShort 7y ago
Watching Santa Clarita Diet on Fedora as I type this. Just requires Chrome.
penagwin 7y ago
The Netflix DRM stuff has been mostly solved at this point. Most of the modern distros + chrome will work just fine.
- ar_lan 7y ago
  Oh nice, that's great to hear! This was not really a deal breaker for me as I mostly use my laptop for work, but it was definitely frustrating when I was a student and used my laptop for everything.
swebs 7y ago
Yes, for about 4 years now
- ar_lan 7y ago
  I don't believe you. Maybe some obscure distro, but I tried multiple back in 2015/2016 and couldn't get it to work without some strange package to attempt to install Silverlight.

jayd16 7y ago

Ok, what turnkey Linux laptop with a touch screen (for Android games) can I go to Best buy and pick up today?

ikeboy 7y ago
Dell XPS developer edition
- jayd16 7y ago
  I can't actually find a link to buy these any more.
  - ikeboy 7y ago
    You can get on dell.com. Don't know about in store.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
solarkraft 7y ago
The Best Buy qualifier makes it a lot harder. If you're willing to let that go, System 76 and Purism sell amazing devices with not only good Linux distros pre-installed, but also as much free software (close to 100%) throughout the whole stack, which is a real benefit to security and freedom. If you weaken "turnkey" a bit to include installation you'll find that most Laptops on sale today will run the popular Linux distributions flawlessly.

DonHopkins 7y ago

The idea that "an ordinary Jane or Joe" would want to use GIMP is laughable. When a raving Linux evangelist publishes a fawning article about how it's actually a "good thing" that GIMP has lost its User eXperience (UX) maintainer, is that really a sign that GIMP is finally on the right track for "an ordinary Jane or Joe" to easily use? https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-gimps-bad-news-could-be-good-news/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-gimps-bad-news-coul... >The GIMP's bad news could be good news >The GIMP has lost its User eXperience (UX) maintainer. Jack Wallen thinks this could be good news for one of the most powerful open-source image editing tools. >This month, the GIMP lost its User eXperience (UX) maintainer. This is important. Why? Because, over all, the UX of Gimp has always had a very bad rap. People don't like it. I should preface this by saying 99% of the graphics that I do are done in GIMP (all of my TechRepublic images, all my book covers... everything). I've always been a big fan of the platform. That being said, it can't be denied that an overwhelming majority of people do not find the GIMP experience to be positive. I love this spit-take worthy quote, showcasing the author's extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome: >"GIMP is really just a proper UX maintainer away from graphic design domination" Look out Photoshop! As soon as GIMP finally finds that one proper UX maintainer with infinite patience and leadership abilities and free time (and a trust fund to live off of), who manages to convince all the GIMP developers working for free on their own time to stop bickering and fucking around and for the first time in history drop the pet projects they're doing and follow the UX genius's innovative new directions and disruptive sweeping designs to make GIMP easy to use, Adobe's doooooooomed I tell you!

freedomben 7y ago
I think your hate for GIMP blinded you to their point. There are plenty of useful apps that "an ordinary Jane or Joe" could find useful. Substitute any of those for GIMP if you don't think the average user would use it. My dad (not a technical person) uses Pinta, Libre Office, RhythmBox, and many other apps on his Ubuntu machine every day.