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> If this person was from any other country, he would have a green card by now. Can you elaborate this a bit (or provide some links)? I am well aware that ther

by r3bl 7y ago

> If this person was from any other country, he would have a green card by now. Can you elaborate this a bit (or provide some links)? I am well aware that there are some policy changes around H-1B extensions, and that Indian workers make a huge percentage of the total denials, but I don't understand the connection between the two.

ptc 7y ago
How long you wait for an H1B is dependent on the country you are from because of USCIS imposed per year limits per country. See: https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/country-limit https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/country-limit
umeshunni 7y ago
This has nothing to do with H1B denials - It has to do with the fact that green cards are allocated based on a per-country quota. Other visas, especially H1B are not. So, to simplify: - Assume there are 1000 H1B visas and 1000 green cards allotted each year and that an H1B worker can apply for a green card after living in the US for a year. - 50% of H1Bs are from India, so there are 500 H1Bs a year from India - But green cards are subject to a 100/year/country quota. So, the next year, only 100 of the Indian H1B workers can apply for a green card. - This creates a backlog of 5 years for all the 500 to get a green card - The problem keeps getting worse because the next year, there are 500 more Indian workers applying for a green card but the queue only has 100 more green cards to allocate, so now the wait for the last applicant is now 8 years. - This process then repeats for a few years and workers from India now have a 100+ year wait for a green card. In reality, not all H1B workers apply for a green card and there have been some temporarily relief mechanisms passed in the past to mitigate the delays, but you can see why the problem is especially bad for workers from India. In the past, it was a problem for Chinese workers as well, but with the economy in China improving in the past few years, there is lower demand from Chinese workers for green cards.
- droithomme 7y ago
  As described with those numbers, it is clear that Indian nationals are especially favored, not discriminated against as was claimed. Thus the complaint is really that India, favored above all other nations, is not favored enough. Same chance at green cards as other countries, and massively more chance at H1B, utilizing 50% of all slots, and therefore more than any other nation. If one wishes to establish a balance between H1Bs and Green Cards on a per nation basis, the H1Bs could likewise be limited on a per-country basis, matching that of the Green Card allocation.
  - belltaco 7y ago
    So Vatican City with its 1000 population is being heavily discriminated against in favor of India because there are basically no H1Bs from there? Stop the press. Let us restrict work visas to one or less than one per country to make it fair to Vatican City.
    - droithomme 7y ago
      Interesting example. Vatican City was granted 0 H1B visas in all of 2018, as well as all previous years I could find. Are you aware of any years where Vatican City used the H1B visa? You must be since you use it as a counter example. 2018 Vatican City was granted a total of 42 non-immigrant visas across all categories. Most of these were consular visas for embassy staff and government officials on official business. H category work visas are totally non present. In 2018 India was granted 125,528 H1B, 111,242 H-4 (family of H1B), 42,694 F-1 (student), and others coming to a total of 1,006,802 non-immigrant visas. Only Mexico and China had more visas overall, with Mexico at 1,372,420 and China with 1,464,810 non-immigrant visas. Nearly all of China's and Mexico's visas were B-1,2 which are for very short tourism and business trips. This was also the case with India, with 616,312 visas being B-1,2. As to H1B visas, China received 27,482 and Mexico received 2,524. Looking at work visas, India dominates all other nations by a large factor. Bringing up the Vatican is an amazing argument given that they receive zero temporary work visas each year. Yet you still continue to argue that India is being unfairly discriminated against by the United States. You are privileged to argue this, and also disingenuous.
- poweribo 7y ago
  Yup. compare this to i.e. Philippines. I only had to wait 2 yrs for my GC while a lot of my indian colleagues are still waiting. Due to the extreme backlog, they couldnt really plan long term for their families.
- eatbitseveryday 7y ago
  There’s always an option to marry a US citizen (genuinely if it happens) and get a GC without being subject to a quota.
winter_blue 7y ago
Only around 2,500 people from India are allowed to get EB-2 and EB-3 green cards per year. That's ~200 Indians per month. This is a numerical limit imposed by Congress. The US government will approve an EB-2/EB-3 green card application, but not actually issue it, and place people from Indian on a queue. The queue for India-born people is over 300,000 right now. So the queue wait time is over a century. These people from India are forced to spend their lives in the U.S. on the H-1B visa. A visa which prohibits spouses from working, deports your non-U.S.-born children[3] when they turn 21, makes it difficult to switch employers, prohibits unemployment / taking a break, and prohibits starting your own company. This all goes back to the 1965 Immigration Act. That was the Act that made it possible for people from outside Western Europe to immigrate to the US. It allowed a limited number of highly-skilled people to immigrate if they were sponsored by a company (and the company proved there was no minimally qualified Americans willing to do the job). Some rather-racist members of Congress were presciently concerned about a lot of skilled immigrant coming from China and India, which were the two most populous countries back in 1965 as well. To appease them, a 7% limit was put based on country of birth.[1] No more than 7% of immigrants in a numerically-limited category can be from the same country of birth. Again, when the 1965 law passed, there were hard numerical limits on immigration. To appease the racists, Congress reserved most of the green cards for family members. Even the majority employment-based green cards go to family members.[2] Effectively, out of the 80,000 skilled immigraiton (EB-2 and EB-3) green cards, around 55% are used by family members. That leaves around 36,000 spots for skilled immigrants a year. With the 7% per-country limit, you end up with a limit of ~2500 per year per country. [1] Specifically, Section 202(a)(2) of the Immigration Nationality Act (Sec 202 is codified as 8 U.S. Code § 1152 Numerical limitations on individual foreign states): https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152#a https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152#a [2] Family Members Use Most Employment-Based Green Cards (Cato Institute): https://www.cato.org/blog/family-members-use-most-employment-based-green-cards https://www.cato.org/blog/family-members-use-most-employment... [3] An extremely sad story about this: https://www.statesman.com/news/20171013/commentary-how-a-20-year-visa-backlog-sent-our-daughter-back-to-india https://www.statesman.com/news/20171013/commentary-how-a-20-... Quoting: > My wife and I came to the United States nearly 20 years ago from India with our daughter, Himani — legally — in hopes of a better life and an aspiration to succeed and contribute positively to American society. Unfortunately, due to immigration laws, she was unable to stay in the United States due to massive backlogs. This is a problem that affects thousands of immigrant children. > She has lived in Williamson County following all the legal processes — but last year she aged out of the system, when she had turned 21 while we were still waiting for her permanent status. Under the current immigration system, a child can only stay on their parents’ visa as a dependent until he or she is an adult. We had been waiting in line for 20 years to get permanent residence but are now stuck in a massive backlog that is extremely disheartening. > [...] This is all she knows and can call her “home.” > Juvenile memories — such as her lemonade stands and attending prom her senior year — are some of the beautiful things she had to leave behind. We still cannot digest the reality of the situation. As a parent, it is bearable to see your child leave home voluntarily for college or their career — but not when they’re forced to leave through the result of unfair laws. > She initially went back to India alone last year with a big smile and positive attitude. Since then, life has been a struggle to live for her: assimilating to a new culture, undergoing chronic illnesses due to her environment in India, and trying to figure out her life in general. > She says it feels like someone has spontaneously taken everything away, including her identity. On top of that, her college education in the U.S. was abruptly stopped because she was unable to obtain a student visa; there is a law where gaps between a dependent visa and the college semester start date should not exceed 30 days. Unfortunately, she was five days over the limit. She has since applied to another university in India, where she will spend another four years studying. > She hadn’t been able to see us for a year but later opted for a visa to “visit” a nation that is practically her home.
belltaco 7y ago
Vatican City with its 1000 population and India with its 1.4 Billion population are allocated the same number of visas. That's why wait times are miniscule outside of India/China, but are several decades long if you're from India.
ummonk 7y ago
We have racist immigration laws that cap the percentage of green cards going to people from any one country, which has created a really long waiting line for Indians who seek green cards (currently ~15 years).

by r3bl 7y ago

ptc 7y ago

How long you wait for an H1B is dependent on the country you are from because of USCIS imposed per year limits per country. See: https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/country-limit https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/country-limit

umeshunni 7y ago

This has nothing to do with H1B denials - It has to do with the fact that green cards are allocated based on a per-country quota. Other visas, especially H1B are not. So, to simplify: - Assume there are 1000 H1B visas and 1000 green cards allotted each year and that an H1B worker can apply for a green card after living in the US for a year. - 50% of H1Bs are from India, so there are 500 H1Bs a year from India - But green cards are subject to a 100/year/country quota. So, the next year, only 100 of the Indian H1B workers can apply for a green card. - This creates a backlog of 5 years for all the 500 to get a green card - The problem keeps getting worse because the next year, there are 500 more Indian workers applying for a green card but the queue only has 100 more green cards to allocate, so now the wait for the last applicant is now 8 years. - This process then repeats for a few years and workers from India now have a 100+ year wait for a green card. In reality, not all H1B workers apply for a green card and there have been some temporarily relief mechanisms passed in the past to mitigate the delays, but you can see why the problem is especially bad for workers from India. In the past, it was a problem for Chinese workers as well, but with the economy in China improving in the past few years, there is lower demand from Chinese workers for green cards.

droithomme 7y ago
As described with those numbers, it is clear that Indian nationals are especially favored, not discriminated against as was claimed. Thus the complaint is really that India, favored above all other nations, is not favored enough. Same chance at green cards as other countries, and massively more chance at H1B, utilizing 50% of all slots, and therefore more than any other nation. If one wishes to establish a balance between H1Bs and Green Cards on a per nation basis, the H1Bs could likewise be limited on a per-country basis, matching that of the Green Card allocation.
- belltaco 7y ago
  So Vatican City with its 1000 population is being heavily discriminated against in favor of India because there are basically no H1Bs from there? Stop the press. Let us restrict work visas to one or less than one per country to make it fair to Vatican City.
  - droithomme 7y ago
    Interesting example. Vatican City was granted 0 H1B visas in all of 2018, as well as all previous years I could find. Are you aware of any years where Vatican City used the H1B visa? You must be since you use it as a counter example. 2018 Vatican City was granted a total of 42 non-immigrant visas across all categories. Most of these were consular visas for embassy staff and government officials on official business. H category work visas are totally non present. In 2018 India was granted 125,528 H1B, 111,242 H-4 (family of H1B), 42,694 F-1 (student), and others coming to a total of 1,006,802 non-immigrant visas. Only Mexico and China had more visas overall, with Mexico at 1,372,420 and China with 1,464,810 non-immigrant visas. Nearly all of China's and Mexico's visas were B-1,2 which are for very short tourism and business trips. This was also the case with India, with 616,312 visas being B-1,2. As to H1B visas, China received 27,482 and Mexico received 2,524. Looking at work visas, India dominates all other nations by a large factor. Bringing up the Vatican is an amazing argument given that they receive zero temporary work visas each year. Yet you still continue to argue that India is being unfairly discriminated against by the United States. You are privileged to argue this, and also disingenuous.
poweribo 7y ago
Yup. compare this to i.e. Philippines. I only had to wait 2 yrs for my GC while a lot of my indian colleagues are still waiting. Due to the extreme backlog, they couldnt really plan long term for their families.
eatbitseveryday 7y ago
There’s always an option to marry a US citizen (genuinely if it happens) and get a GC without being subject to a quota.

winter_blue 7y ago

Only around 2,500 people from India are allowed to get EB-2 and EB-3 green cards per year. That's ~200 Indians per month. This is a numerical limit imposed by Congress. The US government will approve an EB-2/EB-3 green card application, but not actually issue it, and place people from Indian on a queue. The queue for India-born people is over 300,000 right now. So the queue wait time is over a century. These people from India are forced to spend their lives in the U.S. on the H-1B visa. A visa which prohibits spouses from working, deports your non-U.S.-born children[3] when they turn 21, makes it difficult to switch employers, prohibits unemployment / taking a break, and prohibits starting your own company. This all goes back to the 1965 Immigration Act. That was the Act that made it possible for people from outside Western Europe to immigrate to the US. It allowed a limited number of highly-skilled people to immigrate if they were sponsored by a company (and the company proved there was no minimally qualified Americans willing to do the job). Some rather-racist members of Congress were presciently concerned about a lot of skilled immigrant coming from China and India, which were the two most populous countries back in 1965 as well. To appease them, a 7% limit was put based on country of birth.[1] No more than 7% of immigrants in a numerically-limited category can be from the same country of birth. Again, when the 1965 law passed, there were hard numerical limits on immigration. To appease the racists, Congress reserved most of the green cards for family members. Even the majority employment-based green cards go to family members.[2] Effectively, out of the 80,000 skilled immigraiton (EB-2 and EB-3) green cards, around 55% are used by family members. That leaves around 36,000 spots for skilled immigrants a year. With the 7% per-country limit, you end up with a limit of ~2500 per year per country. [1] Specifically, Section 202(a)(2) of the Immigration Nationality Act (Sec 202 is codified as 8 U.S. Code § 1152 Numerical limitations on individual foreign states): https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152#a https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152#a [2] Family Members Use Most Employment-Based Green Cards (Cato Institute): https://www.cato.org/blog/family-members-use-most-employment-based-green-cards https://www.cato.org/blog/family-members-use-most-employment... [3] An extremely sad story about this: https://www.statesman.com/news/20171013/commentary-how-a-20-year-visa-backlog-sent-our-daughter-back-to-india https://www.statesman.com/news/20171013/commentary-how-a-20-... Quoting: > My wife and I came to the United States nearly 20 years ago from India with our daughter, Himani — legally — in hopes of a better life and an aspiration to succeed and contribute positively to American society. Unfortunately, due to immigration laws, she was unable to stay in the United States due to massive backlogs. This is a problem that affects thousands of immigrant children. > She has lived in Williamson County following all the legal processes — but last year she aged out of the system, when she had turned 21 while we were still waiting for her permanent status. Under the current immigration system, a child can only stay on their parents’ visa as a dependent until he or she is an adult. We had been waiting in line for 20 years to get permanent residence but are now stuck in a massive backlog that is extremely disheartening. > [...] This is all she knows and can call her “home.” > Juvenile memories — such as her lemonade stands and attending prom her senior year — are some of the beautiful things she had to leave behind. We still cannot digest the reality of the situation. As a parent, it is bearable to see your child leave home voluntarily for college or their career — but not when they’re forced to leave through the result of unfair laws. > She initially went back to India alone last year with a big smile and positive attitude. Since then, life has been a struggle to live for her: assimilating to a new culture, undergoing chronic illnesses due to her environment in India, and trying to figure out her life in general. > She says it feels like someone has spontaneously taken everything away, including her identity. On top of that, her college education in the U.S. was abruptly stopped because she was unable to obtain a student visa; there is a law where gaps between a dependent visa and the college semester start date should not exceed 30 days. Unfortunately, she was five days over the limit. She has since applied to another university in India, where she will spend another four years studying. > She hadn’t been able to see us for a year but later opted for a visa to “visit” a nation that is practically her home.

belltaco 7y ago

Vatican City with its 1000 population and India with its 1.4 Billion population are allocated the same number of visas. That's why wait times are miniscule outside of India/China, but are several decades long if you're from India.

ummonk 7y ago

We have racist immigration laws that cap the percentage of green cards going to people from any one country, which has created a really long waiting line for Indians who seek green cards (currently ~15 years).