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Add high criminality and overall police state. Definitely a place of much less true freedom compared to any western europe (unless you define freedom as hoardin

Add high criminality and overall police state. Definitely a place of much less true freedom compared to any western europe (unless you define freedom as hoarding tons of guns for when 'they' come). Directly contributing to mass murder of some poor guys defending their home country from foreign invasion for power and greed half around the globe with your taxes. Much more free time to have a life. And so on and on and on. We as software devs can literally spin a globe, close eyes and point randomly and simply move there. Some places are harder than others, but its still a breeze compared to many other professions if you have some good experience. Why would anyone go to US these days baffles me. The real quality of life is much harder to get there.

torgian 8y ago
Hell. I left the US and got a job as a remote developer for a company in Japan (and since have started my own business). I make less than I would in the States but I’m happier overall.
raxxorrax 8y ago
Bad argument, since 'they' as in the state came pretty often in Europe. I don't give anything on patriotism, but I admire the US for their freedom and I understand the need to have it for the society they are. Yeah, the security paranoia of the US in the last 20 years is abhorrent, dangerous, costly, infantile and probably against their own values, no further explanation needed. But I don't think there are better countries concerning civil rights. No European state comes close. Not Sweden, not Norway, Switzerland maybe for some people... I live in Europe and regularly think about working in the US. Wouldn't want to go to Silicon Valley though.
- bildung 8y ago
  > But I don't think there are better countries concerning civil rights. No European state comes close. Not Sweden, not Norway, Switzerland maybe for some people... I've read that often, but don't really think it's true. Compared to many European countries some of the more obvious civil rights problems are things like gay rights, minorities are systematically prevented from voting (through gerrymandering and other voting district decisions), the highest prison population per capita in the world (combine that with loss of voting rights and disproportionate share of minorities you get additional minority voter suppression), lack of whistleblower protections etc. Freedom House has a civil rights ranking where the United States only land at rank 51 of 210 countries: https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-country-scores https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-cou.... The US only get to the 38th position in their freedom of press index: https://freedomhouse.org/report/table-country-scores-fotp-2017 https://freedomhouse.org/report/table-country-scores-fotp-20...
  - raxxorrax 8y ago
    The focus on minorities seems always a bit strange to me and a bad start to argue for more civil liberties. Everyone should be equal under the law and I talk about civil liberties that are enshrined in law. That doesn't mean minorities are not at a disadvantage or that everyone being equal under the law describes reality, but the best way to help with that are universal human rights and their strict enforcement. Minorities are too often used as a shield to their disadvantage. Using minorities as an argument to restrict speech for example is a very common example and plainly wrong. I think the rankings in the US are correct and not really in the top class, but I do believe that the US ends its paranoia trip at some point. Maybe wishful thinking. Germany has some better rankings but really lacks in freedom when compared to the US.
    - bildung 8y ago
      > The focus on minorities seems always a bit strange to me and a bad start to argue for more civil liberties. Everyone should be equal under the law and I talk about civil liberties that are enshrined in law. People belabor the minority point because that is the cornerstone of a real democracy. You don't have a proper democracy if you have free elections - but only for the right kind of people. The US voting system right now is designed to exclude certain kinds of people. This something most other industrialized countries don't do. That is a main reason for the low ranking in the list I linked. > Germany has some better rankings but really lacks in freedom when compared to the US. Care to qualify what kind of freedoms Germany is lacking compared to the US?
      - raxxorrax 8y ago
        You secure the rights of minorities through universal human rights. These protect you from abuse. Nothing else matters. Why shouldn't the minority suppress the majority? Thinking of Iraq here for example, where it was a religious minority. Exactly the same problem, or what do you suggest here? In most of human history minorities have suppressed the majority. It isn't even close. > People belabor the minority point because that is the cornerstone of a real democracy. That sentence doesn't make sense. In a democracy people are the sovereign. End of story and definition. That applies to everyone of course.
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  I live in Switzerland actually, can compare first hand both countries and these 2 countries are... incomparable (even as non-citizen here). Its true each of us have different priorities but I can't think of a single important (for me) aspect of life that is better in US. If I involve in comparing process my potential future children, the comparison ends up even better for Suisse. The other comment here points some proper stats, which are better than some hollywoodish image US has.
  - raxxorrax 8y ago
    True, I thought long about including it in the list. Quality of life is probably higher on average, but in relation to freedom I would say the US comes up on top. Even with a bad justice system, high property taxes, really bad healthcare, etc. But from a European perspective, these are slowly becoming problems that a negligible compared to restrictions in Europe. Just an opinion of course.
    - s3nnyy 8y ago
      Regarding which freedom does the US come up on top? Yes, you have the constitution but the reality in the US is somewhat unconstitutional. Since only some decades you have the federal reserve setting interest rates as they please (potential killing savings) and your wage (not income) is taxed at source. This wasn't the case several decades ago.

torgian 8y ago

Hell. I left the US and got a job as a remote developer for a company in Japan (and since have started my own business). I make less than I would in the States but I’m happier overall.

raxxorrax 8y ago

Bad argument, since 'they' as in the state came pretty often in Europe. I don't give anything on patriotism, but I admire the US for their freedom and I understand the need to have it for the society they are. Yeah, the security paranoia of the US in the last 20 years is abhorrent, dangerous, costly, infantile and probably against their own values, no further explanation needed. But I don't think there are better countries concerning civil rights. No European state comes close. Not Sweden, not Norway, Switzerland maybe for some people... I live in Europe and regularly think about working in the US. Wouldn't want to go to Silicon Valley though.

bildung 8y ago
> But I don't think there are better countries concerning civil rights. No European state comes close. Not Sweden, not Norway, Switzerland maybe for some people... I've read that often, but don't really think it's true. Compared to many European countries some of the more obvious civil rights problems are things like gay rights, minorities are systematically prevented from voting (through gerrymandering and other voting district decisions), the highest prison population per capita in the world (combine that with loss of voting rights and disproportionate share of minorities you get additional minority voter suppression), lack of whistleblower protections etc. Freedom House has a civil rights ranking where the United States only land at rank 51 of 210 countries: https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-country-scores https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-cou.... The US only get to the 38th position in their freedom of press index: https://freedomhouse.org/report/table-country-scores-fotp-2017 https://freedomhouse.org/report/table-country-scores-fotp-20...
- raxxorrax 8y ago
  The focus on minorities seems always a bit strange to me and a bad start to argue for more civil liberties. Everyone should be equal under the law and I talk about civil liberties that are enshrined in law. That doesn't mean minorities are not at a disadvantage or that everyone being equal under the law describes reality, but the best way to help with that are universal human rights and their strict enforcement. Minorities are too often used as a shield to their disadvantage. Using minorities as an argument to restrict speech for example is a very common example and plainly wrong. I think the rankings in the US are correct and not really in the top class, but I do believe that the US ends its paranoia trip at some point. Maybe wishful thinking. Germany has some better rankings but really lacks in freedom when compared to the US.
  - bildung 8y ago
    > The focus on minorities seems always a bit strange to me and a bad start to argue for more civil liberties. Everyone should be equal under the law and I talk about civil liberties that are enshrined in law. People belabor the minority point because that is the cornerstone of a real democracy. You don't have a proper democracy if you have free elections - but only for the right kind of people. The US voting system right now is designed to exclude certain kinds of people. This something most other industrialized countries don't do. That is a main reason for the low ranking in the list I linked. > Germany has some better rankings but really lacks in freedom when compared to the US. Care to qualify what kind of freedoms Germany is lacking compared to the US?
    - raxxorrax 8y ago
      You secure the rights of minorities through universal human rights. These protect you from abuse. Nothing else matters. Why shouldn't the minority suppress the majority? Thinking of Iraq here for example, where it was a religious minority. Exactly the same problem, or what do you suggest here? In most of human history minorities have suppressed the majority. It isn't even close. > People belabor the minority point because that is the cornerstone of a real democracy. That sentence doesn't make sense. In a democracy people are the sovereign. End of story and definition. That applies to everyone of course.
saiya-jin 8y ago
I live in Switzerland actually, can compare first hand both countries and these 2 countries are... incomparable (even as non-citizen here). Its true each of us have different priorities but I can't think of a single important (for me) aspect of life that is better in US. If I involve in comparing process my potential future children, the comparison ends up even better for Suisse. The other comment here points some proper stats, which are better than some hollywoodish image US has.
- raxxorrax 8y ago
  True, I thought long about including it in the list. Quality of life is probably higher on average, but in relation to freedom I would say the US comes up on top. Even with a bad justice system, high property taxes, really bad healthcare, etc. But from a European perspective, these are slowly becoming problems that a negligible compared to restrictions in Europe. Just an opinion of course.
  - s3nnyy 8y ago
    Regarding which freedom does the US come up on top? Yes, you have the constitution but the reality in the US is somewhat unconstitutional. Since only some decades you have the federal reserve setting interest rates as they please (potential killing savings) and your wage (not income) is taxed at source. This wasn't the case several decades ago.