6 ms·

For those who see this as Google turning off an unused service: no, just no. This is Google cutting off a massive interop ecosystem to try to parlay the success

For those who see this as Google turning off an unused service: no, just no. This is Google cutting off a massive interop ecosystem to try to parlay the success of Nest into higher adoption of Google Home. That’s vastly different than shutting down G+, Wave, Orkut, Reader, etc. It would be as if they announced tomorrow that the only way to read GMail is in Chrome browser or on an Android phone.

abtinf 7y ago
I think it’s very similar to shutting down Reader, which I’ve long believed was killed in a vain attempt to force adoption of G+.
masklinn 7y ago
> For those who see this as Google turning off an unused service: no, just no. This is Google cutting off a massive interop ecosystem to try to parlay the success of Nest into higher adoption of Google Home. That’s vastly different than shutting down G+, Wave, Orkut, Reader, etc. It's exactly the same as previous shutdowns, it's just that you didn't personally care about previous shutdowns and couldn't be arsed to emphasise or learn the lesson that google can not be trusted to keep services alive. The sharp folks are those like ocdtrekkie upthread who shed their nest immediately upon learning of the acquisition.
- Angostura 7y ago
  Since you claim its exactly the same as previous shutdowns listed; when Google shut down Wave, which paid for Google product were they aiming to increase adoption of?
  - masklinn 7y ago
    G-Suite (Docs).
  - dopamean 7y ago
    my memory of wave is that it barely even launched. wasn't it around less than a year? did anyone actually use it?
    - otakucode 7y ago
      My group of friends tried to. It could have been quite successful, since it basically offered what Discord is now.
      - rtkwe 7y ago
        How? I guess you could use it like a chat room just putting new messages at the bottom of the document but seems like a crazy kludge to use Wave as a chat.
        otakucode 7y ago
        I thought that was its intended primary purpose. We could chat and inline media, pictures, etc. It was a big upgrade from IRC. There were issues with sharing files larger than just images and whatnot, but it easily could have been polished a bit into something better. If Discord added the ability to have 'threads', it would basically be what we used Wave for. For a few weeks anyway until Google decided it wasn't catching on enough or whatever justification they gave for giving up on it.
        rtkwe 7y ago
        I don't think I ever heard of it being pitched that way just as a collaborative editing room for editing an actual document not just for using the comments etc as a chat.
david_ar 7y ago
They kind of did do that with Offline Gmail, though.
- markvdb 7y ago
  Gmail is still imap readable.
  - dade_ 7y ago
    For now
  - tehbeard 7y ago
    With the caveat of having to jump through a series of hoops every few months because Google kindly decided to switch off "unsafe access"
    - tmefq 7y ago
      That's never, ever happened to me.
      - chinhodado 7y ago
        It happens to me all the time. I used to use Gmail API to send mail (personal hobby app, to my own account). Every now and then Gmail would randomly refuse to authenticate through the API because of unsafe or suspicious access or some other BS. Then I would need to jump through some hoops (log in manually though browser, toggle on/off the "allow less secure app" setting, the disable unlock captcha setting, and it would work again for a while before acting up again.
        Spivak 7y ago
        I don't think depreciating the use of "Give your Google account password to $app" or "Give $app a fixed never expiring key that's as good as your password" unless you explicitly enable it is particularly user hostile. If you used the Gmail API https://developers.google.com/gmail/api https://developers.google.com/gmail/api and client that supports OAuth instead of SMTP with username/password you wouldn't really run into this problem. Yeah it kind of sucks for hobbyists because it's not as simple as sending an SMTP email but that's more to do with the lack of good tooling than something fundamental.
barrkel 7y ago
It's a typical Asshole Executive move: leverage successful feature to increase adoption of random other product, and then convert adoption increase into bonus and career opportunities, and hope that the loss in goodwill isn't noticed. It was the same when G+ was created. Asshole Executives started jamming + buttons everywhere, including search results (!). They killed + in search queries as meaning "required". Every semi-successful feature had to get G+ integration to maximize the adoption of G+.
- gaius_baltar 7y ago
  > Every semi-successful feature had to get G+ integration to maximize the adoption of G+. Also, forced Youtube integration and G+ accounts being required even to rate Android apps.
  - ralfd 7y ago
    Funny that G+ was still ignored despite this effort.
    - josteink 7y ago
      s/Funny/Fair and just/ We shouldn’t reward scummy behaviour like this.
    - rmc 7y ago
      Some times people say "What if $COMPANY goes evil?". But if Google couldn't make G+ successful, then them going evil shouldn't be too concerning. They're clearly not as powerful as one could think
    - Tsiklon 7y ago
      I'd be inclined to believe it was ignored because of this effort.

abtinf 7y ago

I think it’s very similar to shutting down Reader, which I’ve long believed was killed in a vain attempt to force adoption of G+.

masklinn 7y ago

> For those who see this as Google turning off an unused service: no, just no. This is Google cutting off a massive interop ecosystem to try to parlay the success of Nest into higher adoption of Google Home. That’s vastly different than shutting down G+, Wave, Orkut, Reader, etc. It's exactly the same as previous shutdowns, it's just that you didn't personally care about previous shutdowns and couldn't be arsed to emphasise or learn the lesson that google can not be trusted to keep services alive. The sharp folks are those like ocdtrekkie upthread who shed their nest immediately upon learning of the acquisition.

Angostura 7y ago
Since you claim its exactly the same as previous shutdowns listed; when Google shut down Wave, which paid for Google product were they aiming to increase adoption of?
- masklinn 7y ago
  G-Suite (Docs).
- dopamean 7y ago
  my memory of wave is that it barely even launched. wasn't it around less than a year? did anyone actually use it?
  - otakucode 7y ago
    My group of friends tried to. It could have been quite successful, since it basically offered what Discord is now.
    - rtkwe 7y ago
      How? I guess you could use it like a chat room just putting new messages at the bottom of the document but seems like a crazy kludge to use Wave as a chat.
      - otakucode 7y ago
        I thought that was its intended primary purpose. We could chat and inline media, pictures, etc. It was a big upgrade from IRC. There were issues with sharing files larger than just images and whatnot, but it easily could have been polished a bit into something better. If Discord added the ability to have 'threads', it would basically be what we used Wave for. For a few weeks anyway until Google decided it wasn't catching on enough or whatever justification they gave for giving up on it.
        rtkwe 7y ago
        I don't think I ever heard of it being pitched that way just as a collaborative editing room for editing an actual document not just for using the comments etc as a chat.

david_ar 7y ago

They kind of did do that with Offline Gmail, though.

markvdb 7y ago
Gmail is still imap readable.
- dade_ 7y ago
  For now
- tehbeard 7y ago
  With the caveat of having to jump through a series of hoops every few months because Google kindly decided to switch off "unsafe access"
  - tmefq 7y ago
    That's never, ever happened to me.
    - chinhodado 7y ago
      It happens to me all the time. I used to use Gmail API to send mail (personal hobby app, to my own account). Every now and then Gmail would randomly refuse to authenticate through the API because of unsafe or suspicious access or some other BS. Then I would need to jump through some hoops (log in manually though browser, toggle on/off the "allow less secure app" setting, the disable unlock captcha setting, and it would work again for a while before acting up again.
      - Spivak 7y ago
        I don't think depreciating the use of "Give your Google account password to $app" or "Give $app a fixed never expiring key that's as good as your password" unless you explicitly enable it is particularly user hostile. If you used the Gmail API https://developers.google.com/gmail/api https://developers.google.com/gmail/api and client that supports OAuth instead of SMTP with username/password you wouldn't really run into this problem. Yeah it kind of sucks for hobbyists because it's not as simple as sending an SMTP email but that's more to do with the lack of good tooling than something fundamental.

barrkel 7y ago

It's a typical Asshole Executive move: leverage successful feature to increase adoption of random other product, and then convert adoption increase into bonus and career opportunities, and hope that the loss in goodwill isn't noticed. It was the same when G+ was created. Asshole Executives started jamming + buttons everywhere, including search results (!). They killed + in search queries as meaning "required". Every semi-successful feature had to get G+ integration to maximize the adoption of G+.

gaius_baltar 7y ago
> Every semi-successful feature had to get G+ integration to maximize the adoption of G+. Also, forced Youtube integration and G+ accounts being required even to rate Android apps.
- ralfd 7y ago
  Funny that G+ was still ignored despite this effort.
  - josteink 7y ago
    s/Funny/Fair and just/ We shouldn’t reward scummy behaviour like this.
  - rmc 7y ago
    Some times people say "What if $COMPANY goes evil?". But if Google couldn't make G+ successful, then them going evil shouldn't be too concerning. They're clearly not as powerful as one could think
  - Tsiklon 7y ago
    I'd be inclined to believe it was ignored because of this effort.