5 ms·

> the research showed that too little or too much sleep was associated with increased risk of dying – approximately 65 minutes more than, or under, the average

> the research showed that too little or too much sleep was associated with increased risk of dying – approximately 65 minutes more than, or under, the average nightly sleep duration (7 hours in this sample) was associated with a 10 per cent increased risk of dying over the course of the study This seems inaccurate on the high end. Under 6 hours has repeatedly shown to be bad. But over 8 hrs and 5 min? If the average REM sleep cycle is 1.5 hrs, then your only "perfect" window is 7.5 hrs of sleep - 9 would be detrimental? Other data suggests otherwise: https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/sleep/conditioninfo/how-much https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/sleep/conditioninfo/...

klipt 7y ago
I usually feel like I need 9 hours sleep after a good workout. Am I doomed?
- amelius 7y ago
  I used to need 9 hours after a workout, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore after three years of weightlifting. Perhaps because I now know which exercises are bad for me. Or perhaps because I'm more careful while performing the exercises.
  - FrojoS 7y ago
    Disclaimer: Not an expert. When you do a hard workout for the first few times, there are a lot of neural adaptations. These result in very quick gains of strength within the first few weeks, I think mostly due to better muscle recruitment. At the same time, these neural adaptations are taxing on the brain/CNS. This is especially true of exercises that require intramuscular coordination. In my personal experience it makes it very hard to fall asleep when I learn a new, complex power exercise (e.g. campusing [1]). It also seems logical that you need more sleep for those neural adaptations to take place. Now, once you are experienced in the exercise, there are much less neural adaptations, hence the perceived plateau in strength gains. The way you make gains now, is mostly through muscle growth (hypertrophy) which takes much longer but doesn't tax the CNS as much. This might explain your observation of needing less sleep after intense workouts, now that you have more experience in your sport. Try a new intense exercise and you will likely experience the above described process again. Just don't injure yourself! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACyeOP-Hxo&t=5m40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACyeOP-Hxo&t=5m40s
- zzzeek 7y ago
  Yup, your risk of eventual death is about 100%
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    I know it's anecdotal but so far I haven't died.
- dcolkitt 7y ago
  Take note that what sleep researchers count as hours of sleep is not the same as what we colloquially count as sleep. Let's say you get in bed, lights off, at 11 PM and wake up at 7 AM. Most people would call that an eight hour night of sleep. But in reality it takes the average person 20-30 minutes before actually falling into sleep. The average person also wakes up four or more times a night, sometimes for ten minutes or longer. Often we don't even remember all the times we get up. A lot of people also awaken before their scheduled wakeup times, and spend 20+ minutes in pre-dawn twilight. Add it altogether and an "eight hour night" may actually only constitute 6.5 hours of actual physiological sleep. The only way to know for sure how much sleep you get is to use a device specifically designed for the purpose.
  - redka 7y ago
    Do you have any specific devices in mind?
    - Tomte 7y ago
      Withings (ex Nokia) is selling mats that you put under your sheets and where you lie on. I think Apple does, too, but only in America. That's probably the best device for home-use. But sleep labs are using EEGs, cameras, microphones and puls oxymeters for a reason. Don't expect medical-grade results from a home-use device. Less accurate are several kinds of fitness trackers/smart watches, very inaccurate are smartphone apps.
      - redka 7y ago
        I wish the Withings mat would have the option to wake me up when optimal time comes. I had a fitness tracker that did that but it was very subtle and started working after a few weeks.
        SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
        Are you thinking of the Pebble watch? Maybe in combination with some Android app? I had this setup years ago and I do miss it. I'll have to see whether it can be replicated with my current Fitbit, last I checked it couldn't but it was a while ago.
- oarabbus_ 7y ago
  Well, it's morbid, but we're all doomed.
- arkaic 7y ago
  Isn't it also because participants of these studies who sleep too much does so because they already have health problems that keeps them in bed?
coldtea 7y ago
>If the average REM sleep cycle is 1.5 hrs, then your only "perfect" window is 7.5 hrs of sleep - 9 would be detrimental? First of all, the hours of sleep measured is not necessarily sleep end to end. It's also getting away to go to the bathroom, lying down a little before getting asleep, etc which can easily eat the extra 30 mins. And even actual interrupted end to end sleep is not just end to end full REM cycles -- such that it has to divide perfectly to 1.5. Nor are REM cycles all exactly the same, and all exactly 1.5 hours.
ThrustVectoring 7y ago
It's correlational, not causal. People with health issues are a disproportionally represented among people who sleep a lot.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
logfromblammo 7y ago
A sleep cycle typically progresses N1 -> N2 -> N3 -> N4 -> N3 -> N2 -> REM, before repeating. The first cycle in a night takes less time--at 70 to 100 minutes--and has the longest N3 and N4, and shortest REM interval. As the sleep progresses, the N3 and N4 phases shorten and REM lengthens, as the overall cycle for 2nd and subsequent cycles extends to 90 to 120 minutes. Later cycles may omit N3 and N4 entirely. The only phases in which you are unlikely to awaken from external stimulus are N3 and N4, so by your last cycle of the night, you are more likely to awaken at any time from an alarm clock or a sunbeam on the face. It may be that N3 and N4 are used to shut down the body, to perform a physical cleanup of the brain and other organs for their metabolic waste products, and then REM is used to clear out short term memory and compress information from it for storage in long term memory. If so, then the body is essentially reserving the first 160-220 minutes in a night for physical cleanup before allowing a significant REM phase to happen. As REM apparently represents as much or greater brain activity as a waking brain, the NREM phases could then clean up the metabolic waste products from the previous REM phase. If you take the first 3 phases as a double-NREM, middle cycles as REM-NREM, and the final cycle as REM-wake, your time interval math may work out differently.

klipt 7y ago

I usually feel like I need 9 hours sleep after a good workout. Am I doomed?

amelius 7y ago
I used to need 9 hours after a workout, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore after three years of weightlifting. Perhaps because I now know which exercises are bad for me. Or perhaps because I'm more careful while performing the exercises.
- FrojoS 7y ago
  Disclaimer: Not an expert. When you do a hard workout for the first few times, there are a lot of neural adaptations. These result in very quick gains of strength within the first few weeks, I think mostly due to better muscle recruitment. At the same time, these neural adaptations are taxing on the brain/CNS. This is especially true of exercises that require intramuscular coordination. In my personal experience it makes it very hard to fall asleep when I learn a new, complex power exercise (e.g. campusing [1]). It also seems logical that you need more sleep for those neural adaptations to take place. Now, once you are experienced in the exercise, there are much less neural adaptations, hence the perceived plateau in strength gains. The way you make gains now, is mostly through muscle growth (hypertrophy) which takes much longer but doesn't tax the CNS as much. This might explain your observation of needing less sleep after intense workouts, now that you have more experience in your sport. Try a new intense exercise and you will likely experience the above described process again. Just don't injure yourself! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACyeOP-Hxo&t=5m40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACyeOP-Hxo&t=5m40s
zzzeek 7y ago
Yup, your risk of eventual death is about 100%
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  I know it's anecdotal but so far I haven't died.
dcolkitt 7y ago
Take note that what sleep researchers count as hours of sleep is not the same as what we colloquially count as sleep. Let's say you get in bed, lights off, at 11 PM and wake up at 7 AM. Most people would call that an eight hour night of sleep. But in reality it takes the average person 20-30 minutes before actually falling into sleep. The average person also wakes up four or more times a night, sometimes for ten minutes or longer. Often we don't even remember all the times we get up. A lot of people also awaken before their scheduled wakeup times, and spend 20+ minutes in pre-dawn twilight. Add it altogether and an "eight hour night" may actually only constitute 6.5 hours of actual physiological sleep. The only way to know for sure how much sleep you get is to use a device specifically designed for the purpose.
- redka 7y ago
  Do you have any specific devices in mind?
  - Tomte 7y ago
    Withings (ex Nokia) is selling mats that you put under your sheets and where you lie on. I think Apple does, too, but only in America. That's probably the best device for home-use. But sleep labs are using EEGs, cameras, microphones and puls oxymeters for a reason. Don't expect medical-grade results from a home-use device. Less accurate are several kinds of fitness trackers/smart watches, very inaccurate are smartphone apps.
    - redka 7y ago
      I wish the Withings mat would have the option to wake me up when optimal time comes. I had a fitness tracker that did that but it was very subtle and started working after a few weeks.
      - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
        Are you thinking of the Pebble watch? Maybe in combination with some Android app? I had this setup years ago and I do miss it. I'll have to see whether it can be replicated with my current Fitbit, last I checked it couldn't but it was a while ago.
oarabbus_ 7y ago
Well, it's morbid, but we're all doomed.
arkaic 7y ago
Isn't it also because participants of these studies who sleep too much does so because they already have health problems that keeps them in bed?

coldtea 7y ago

>If the average REM sleep cycle is 1.5 hrs, then your only "perfect" window is 7.5 hrs of sleep - 9 would be detrimental? First of all, the hours of sleep measured is not necessarily sleep end to end. It's also getting away to go to the bathroom, lying down a little before getting asleep, etc which can easily eat the extra 30 mins. And even actual interrupted end to end sleep is not just end to end full REM cycles -- such that it has to divide perfectly to 1.5. Nor are REM cycles all exactly the same, and all exactly 1.5 hours.

ThrustVectoring 7y ago

It's correlational, not causal. People with health issues are a disproportionally represented among people who sleep a lot.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

logfromblammo 7y ago

A sleep cycle typically progresses N1 -> N2 -> N3 -> N4 -> N3 -> N2 -> REM, before repeating. The first cycle in a night takes less time--at 70 to 100 minutes--and has the longest N3 and N4, and shortest REM interval. As the sleep progresses, the N3 and N4 phases shorten and REM lengthens, as the overall cycle for 2nd and subsequent cycles extends to 90 to 120 minutes. Later cycles may omit N3 and N4 entirely. The only phases in which you are unlikely to awaken from external stimulus are N3 and N4, so by your last cycle of the night, you are more likely to awaken at any time from an alarm clock or a sunbeam on the face. It may be that N3 and N4 are used to shut down the body, to perform a physical cleanup of the brain and other organs for their metabolic waste products, and then REM is used to clear out short term memory and compress information from it for storage in long term memory. If so, then the body is essentially reserving the first 160-220 minutes in a night for physical cleanup before allowing a significant REM phase to happen. As REM apparently represents as much or greater brain activity as a waking brain, the NREM phases could then clean up the metabolic waste products from the previous REM phase. If you take the first 3 phases as a double-NREM, middle cycles as REM-NREM, and the final cycle as REM-wake, your time interval math may work out differently.