4 ms·

I'm a pilot, and absolutely this is a crucial difference. It also reminds me of a time years ago when a team I was on had to extend a Memcache client library,

I'm a pilot, and absolutely this is a crucial difference. It also reminds me of a time years ago when a team I was on had to extend a Memcache client library, as it couldn't differentiate between the following two conditions: - "I tried to retrieve a key from cache but was unsuccessful (due to connection error, etc)" - "I tried to retrieve a key from cache but determined conclusively that key does not exist in the cache" If it was important for a caching layer on our silly social game, the same thing is clearly important in aviation.

segmondy 7y ago
Most people experience the same when using DB, NULL in a database is hard to distinguish from, data never stored or data don't exist.
- kbenson 7y ago
  Do you mind explaining what you mean? To my knowledge, inspecting the number of rows returned eliminates this problem.
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    I think he's referring to something like a row with First, Middle, and Last name fields. If the Middle name field is null, does it mean "we don't known this value" or "this value is <nothing> (the person doesn't have a middle name)". For most database schemas, there is no way to tell the difference between the two states.
    - fegu 7y ago
      The latter case, no middle name, should be stored as an empty string. In practice, not enough care is devoted to the difference between Null and empty string for text fields.
      - no-s 7y ago
        "First not null, Middle null, Last not null" represents an a priori assumption that everyone has a First, Middle, and Last - but sometimes we don't know what the Middle is. Allowing a zero length string in any of those attributes implies that some rows in a table have First, Middle, or Last represented by a zero length string. What a zero-length string actually means is subject to interpretation and thus beyond the data model. in the real world it turns out not to be useful to require that people have names just in order to keep data about them...nor does a name particularly distinguish one person from another.
    - nradov 7y ago
      While this is overkill for most applications, the HL7 V3 data types used in healthcare even have multiple different "flavors" of null. So you can distinguish between "no information", "unknown", "not asked", etc. https://www.hl7.org/implement/standards/product_brief.cfm?product_id=358 https://www.hl7.org/implement/standards/product_brief.cfm?pr...

segmondy 7y ago

Most people experience the same when using DB, NULL in a database is hard to distinguish from, data never stored or data don't exist.

kbenson 7y ago
Do you mind explaining what you mean? To my knowledge, inspecting the number of rows returned eliminates this problem.
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  I think he's referring to something like a row with First, Middle, and Last name fields. If the Middle name field is null, does it mean "we don't known this value" or "this value is <nothing> (the person doesn't have a middle name)". For most database schemas, there is no way to tell the difference between the two states.
  - fegu 7y ago
    The latter case, no middle name, should be stored as an empty string. In practice, not enough care is devoted to the difference between Null and empty string for text fields.
    - no-s 7y ago
      "First not null, Middle null, Last not null" represents an a priori assumption that everyone has a First, Middle, and Last - but sometimes we don't know what the Middle is. Allowing a zero length string in any of those attributes implies that some rows in a table have First, Middle, or Last represented by a zero length string. What a zero-length string actually means is subject to interpretation and thus beyond the data model. in the real world it turns out not to be useful to require that people have names just in order to keep data about them...nor does a name particularly distinguish one person from another.
  - nradov 7y ago
    While this is overkill for most applications, the HL7 V3 data types used in healthcare even have multiple different "flavors" of null. So you can distinguish between "no information", "unknown", "not asked", etc. https://www.hl7.org/implement/standards/product_brief.cfm?product_id=358 https://www.hl7.org/implement/standards/product_brief.cfm?pr...