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Denver voters consider next frontier in decriminalizing drugs: magic mushrooms
- justanegg 8y agoStopping Mexicans from the south but letting the clockwork elves march through the front gates.
- techntoke 8y agoMagic mushrooms and other entheogens have amazing potential, but also a lot of risks. Ketamine clinics are already a thing. I think a lower dose (microdose) prescription makes sense for certain people. Anything more, will probably require additional planning and supervision.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- brodo 8y agoThere are some risks, but they have been vastly overstated. I think the media has been irresponsible in publishing scare stories and misinformation about most drugs. How many lives could have been saved if people with treatment resistant depression or PTSD would have been given access to tryptamines and phenethylamines sooner.
- ahoy 8y agoI took mushrooms and the worst thing that happened was that I touched a bowl of mac and cheese for a while and made a small mess.
- saiya-jin 8y agoThere are people who jumped out of the windows because they thought they could fly or that apartment was burning. There are people who ended up in lifelong psychosis due to one single (or many) trip(s). It is extremely powerful substance, much more powerful than anything usual life can bring upon you including softer drugs. I had only the most positive and enlightening experiences with it, but can imagine many folks with deep unresolved issues (ie messed up childhood) could have a very very bad experience. Quality supervision and proper preparation should be mandatory.
- techntoke 8y agoThis, I dated a girl once who tried harming herself after taking some shrooms, not realizing she had some issues with self-harm.
- Scoundreller 8y agoAnd they say that mushrooms can’t cause permanent damage, but here we are with a permanent carpet stain.
- bagacrap 8y agoWhat are the risks?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- agilebyte 8y agoIt enhances the feelings you are experiencing already. If those are negative to begin with, I'd worry about people having a bad trip and hurting themselves (even inadvertently like stumbling into traffic).
- hamilyon2 8y agoPsychiatric condition may end up much worse than before
- selectstatement 8y agoIf you already have a mental condition such as schizophrenia it may cause a bad reaction. Mushrooms give an experience of disconnecting from reality or existing outside of your own body. Not the greatest move for someone already having problems with reality.
- ausjke 8y agocloser to be a drugged nation. marijuana legalized, crime below certain amount(around $1000?) incur no legal consequence in states and cities, soon we will have 10+ genders, two-man couple presidential candidate kissing in front of national TV, now comes magic mushroom, what's next?
- cheschire 8y agoLess crowded prisons
- caprese 8y ago*cant reply to the parent anymore, but here is the answer to their 'slipper slope' rant about whats next: most likely we'll have a nation leveraging its resources and productivity. we will have a nation leveraging its tools of governance to support those things exclusively. we won't have people expecting a governing institution to be an enforcer of things they merely don't like, but instead only promoting actions that make it more productive. there currently are people that expect government to assume the role of avoiding tacit support of actions, by making it clear that it criminalizes any one found doing those actions, to that government's own detriment. it is less likely that people will expect government to make that choice, as private persons and organizations can do this on their own.
- ausjke 8y agoA police state is 1984 the extreme, on the other hand what you wrote is basically anarchism which is another extreme, neither will work, it's always a trade-off.
- caprese 8y agoits more like the first thing you imagined was anarchy and ignored every scenario that accomplished what I described that is not anarchy where order and productivity is maintained
- duiker101 8y ago
- mkoryak 8y agoWhat is the difference between decriminalization and legalization in this context?
- seattle_spring 8y agoDecriminalization turns minor possession into basically a traffic ticket. It would still be a misdemeanor or felony to sell or possess large quantities, but it lowers the penalties again users and the priority against prosecuting them. Legalization would most likely mean sanctioned avenues for legal sales, as well as obviously being totally legal to possess and consume at your own home, above age 21.
- Scoundreller 8y ago> but it lowers [...] the priority against prosecuting them Does it? It turns a cost-centre for the state into a profit-centre. Speeding tickets are handed out like candy during the safest road conditions when it’s also the safest to be outside. I never see speedtraps around a sharp bend when it’s dark and rainy, where they would deliver the most safety value.
- seattle_spring 8y agoImagine how they'd be handed out if the fine was $1500 and 6 months jailtime instead of just $150.
- codingdave 8y agoThey are stopping law enforcement from acting on personal use of mushrooms if you are over 21. It is still technically illegal. Text of the ordinance can be found at: https://www.denvergov.org/content/dam/denvergov/Portals/778/documents/PsilocybinFourthPetitionSample.pdf https://www.denvergov.org/content/dam/denvergov/Portals/778/...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- pier25 8y agoPeople who know nothing about drugs always put all psychoactive substances into the same basket which is a tremendous mistake. Psilocybin (the psychedelic compound in magic mushrooms) is non addictive, has many health benefits, and huge potential for personal growth. Much like ayahuasca, I very much doubt people would abuse magic mushrooms recreatively like they do with cocaine, or even alcohol.
- maxxxxx 8y agoYou will always find people who will abuse something. Happened with alcohol, TV, internet and will happen with mushrooms. The question is whether it’s more costly and damaging to prohibit something vs controlling it. I think people are slowly learning that prohibition is worse than letting some people abuse something. If we want to make a drug illegal it should be alcohol anyway. It causes huge numbers of deaths every year. It’s probably the most dangerous drug we have. Clarification: All I m trying to say is that it's dangerous to say "there is no addiction risk in mushrooms. They are totally benign". If you say that it will be really easy for opponents to find counterexamples. Instead we should say they are not more dangerous than already legal things so there is no point in prohibiting mushrooms while other similarly harmful things are legal.
- r00fus 8y agoIf abuse was possible perhaps we’d have the cartels selling magic mushrooms - if that’s not a thing maybe (as Pollan concluded in his book about psychedelics) “place and setting make a big difference “ in efficacy.
- maxxxxx 8y agoAbuse is possible with almost anything. People abuse food, cars, social media, politics and a lot of other things. I agree that mushrooms are probably not as addictive as other drugs but declaring that nobody will abuse them makes no sense.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
- samcday 8y ago"I’m a different guy. I’m fun to be around. Once I couldn’t even cry. Now I can." This really punched me in the feels. It also sucks that Justin preferred not to share his last name for fear of retribution for possessing some fungus that occurs naturally in the wild. Kinda reminds me of the veterans in the US who have been trying to lobby the VA to stop being jerks about cannabis. They say it helps with their PTSD. Currently we don't have a lot of scientific certainty on whether it actually does help or not because of the lack of research. But even putting that aside, it's still kinda absurd that we dictate which naturally growing plants people are allowed to possess / cultivate / smoke / ingest / whatever.
- mortenjorck 8y agoUltimately, it’s reductive to make the “how can a plant be illegal” argument. More instructive is to ask “why make something illegal that people use in private,” to which one might reasonably counter “because there are externalities in the form of societal costs.” This, then, gives us a much more interesting question of “how can we reduce the societal costs of people using substances in unhealthy ways?” Indeed, banning a plant has proven not to be an effective way of accomplishing this. So what is? I don’t know the right answer for the US, but there are examples of other more successful approaches. In particular, it’s worth looking at Portugal’s decision to treat substance abuse as a public health problem.
- mieseratte 8y ago> Ultimately, it’s reductive to make the “how can a plant be illegal” argument. How so? I find that to be a reasonable argument, outside of "invasive species" issues.
- dmd 8y agoHow can a lump of lead, a naturally occurring metal, be illegal? All I'm doing is moving it from one place to another. How can anything be illegal? It's all just atoms.
- 8y ago
- dpflan 8y agoIf you want to see some more comments and discussion, check out this HN post from 3 months ago. > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19069200 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19069200 Interested in seeing what discussion emerges this time!
- caprese 8y agojust because the dialogue is open right now, here is something about a different drug: I would like to see the government do something about fentanyl, people across all socioeconomic classes are dying and they wouldn't be if they knew what they were consuming. "RIP everyone has their demons" really doesn't accurately describe that "someone laced their cocaine with fentanyl" testing kits exist, but a regulated purchase would fix this
- andrewla 8y agoMy confusion stems from the fact that I don't know why people are lacing drugs with fentanyl. It's unclear to me because most of the stuff I see written about fentanyl talks about it like it's a poison that kills people -- why not add arsenic instead, which also kills people? As I understand it drug dealers rely on repeat business, and it seems like bad business to sell tainted goods.
- shawnz 8y agoIt's a cheap, potent opioid which its users tend to enjoy. It is just hard to dose accurately because of the extreme potency. It's a race to the bottom: How cheap can we make the product without accidentally killing all the users?
- isk517 8y agoThey lace stuff with fentanyl because it is cheap and powerful opioid. Done correctly it adds to the potency of poorer quality drugs. Fentanyl is basically the MSG of hard drugs, except fentanyl can actually kill you.
- iamatworknow 8y agoI've read that some of these cases of other drugs laced with fentanyl are due to unintentional cross-contamination, due to people preparing cocaine for sale on the same table or scales that they previously prepared fentanyl on and didn't clean properly, for instance.
- dpflan 8y agoCould this move help get mushrooms into research in Colorado? Like this recent move by Imperial College London's Centre for Psychedelics Research (not decrim, but research) > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19756067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19756067 > https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/190994/imperial-launches-worlds-first-centre-psychedelics/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/190994/imperial-launches-wor...
- robmiller 8y agoThis has been a fascinating decade or so watching the children of the 60's make their way into positions of senior governance/policymaking.
- tclancy 8y agoPeople who were old enough to remember the 60s are older than you think. People getting into senior levels now would be closer to Generation X than Baby Boomers.
- Theodores 8y agoMagic mushrooms were a freely available crop of sorts when I was a student. I went picking them one day with a bunch of friends. This was enlightening. First of all there is being outside in the countryside with a group of friends, roaming the hillside. If the pressures of assignments are getting to you this is a welcome change of scene. Particularly if there is some 'rave style' party that this expedition is in preparation for. Next there was the challenge to one's perceptions about finding the things. Initially it looks like a hopeless task. But you find one, then you find another and soon you get to be very good at seeing the things. From a very small age we get told that wild mushrooms are going to kill you. So how do you know that you are picking the magic ones and not the ones that will be as deadly as getting bitten by a snake? But, you don't end up picking the wrong ones, they are all good. Coupled with that is the other things that can get you - creepy crawlies, bugs that you can't see, that sort of stuff. Again, not a problem in reality. There is obviously proof in the pudding, however, before getting as far as tasting some slimy mushroom brew heavily flavoured with something like Ribena you have accomplished at least three things that you can feel good about - physical exercise, having a laugh with friends and doing something that you thought was beyond you in just collecting the things. So I think that this legalisation thing should insist on a 'trip' each time, a trip outdoors to do all of the prep. No commercialisation of the product (selling the things to people who don't do the outdoors bit). A great time can be had, and going outdoors to pick some other herbs, e.g. some rosemary or some chives, is never going to be anywhere near as fun. Keep it recreational and spirits will be lifted. This privately - non sociable, non-recreational - partaking of the active ingredient on one's lonesome just isn't going to hit the mark in quite the same way. Might as well micro-dose alcohol at home alone (half bottle of wine with a meal, every night) if that is the approach. This is alcoholism, which contrasts with alcohol enjoyed out and about in socially engaging experiences. I fear Denver are well meaning but going to get this wrong.
- hirundo 8y agoFresh magic mushrooms have been effectively legal in nearby New Mexico for 14 years, since a 2005 Court of Appeals ruling. This doesn't seem to have caused an appreciable rise in magic mushroom drug culture, or problems with abuse. I would expect the same result in Denver: pretty much nothing. Weird how taking that same fresh mushroom and sticking it in a dehydrator converts it into a felony to posses. https://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/apmush06-15-05.htm https://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/apmush06-15-05.htm
- marak830 8y agoNote: I agree with the fact it shouldn't be illegal. Main point, fucking hard to od on mushrooms when you can barely walk ;-)
- nerdkid93 8y agoThis is interesting. I read an article a few years ago talking about how further research into the active compounds in magic mushrooms might lead to breakthroughs in Alzheimer's and other neural degeneration diseases.
- YeahSureWhyNot 8y agoprogressive societies are building high speed train networks and clean energy farms while american public is busy discussing which bathroom transgenders should use and legalizing drugs while consuming 3x more products and producing 10x more trash than world average.
- thecopy 8y agoWhats your point?
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago>progressive societies are building high speed train networks and clean energy farms When you say "high speed trains and clean energy" the nation that comes to mind is China. China is not exactly an example of a progressive and/or liberal (in the traditional sense) society.
- chibg10 8y agoNot sure what societies you're referring to. The UK is trying to figure out Brexit (still), France is dealing with the Yellow Vests, and the overall biggest political topic in the EU is restricting immigration. America has its problems but it's not like the rest of the democratic world is earning a gold star atm either. And it's not like it gets better outside the democratic countries...
- AFascistWorld 8y agoDrugs are the new political correctness, businesses want the money, junkies want the high. Against legalization? Backward shithole. Victims? Nah there can't be any/your are doing it wrong/control yourself mate your are just weak/X study says it's grand and not addictive, next make it a human right. Oh hey here's your latest Vice episode extolling weed: "Why Weed Is Good".
- JudgeWapner 8y ago"progressive societies" like china that have social credit scores and disappear anyone critical of the "progressive" government ? pretty easy to get things done when you can have critics executed.
- beepboopbeep 8y agoI'm happy to see that the usual comments of "I remember tripping at a festival/college and it was rad!" Are being replaced by medicinal based commentary.
- village-idiot 8y agoOne of the interesting sociological aspects of humanity is that mountain people by and large don’t want to be told what to do. It’s why escaped slaves for centuries have fled to mountainous regions, and why alpine states have been among the first to reject federal rules around marijuana. Psychologically, it appears that introverts prefer mountains and forests, while extroverts prefer plains and beaches.
- willio58 8y agoGreat. Mushrooms have been a great influence in my life, and I recommend them to anyone with a little introspection who feels a lack of perspective in life.
- chiefalchemist 8y agoSidebar - God bless the LA Times for getting the terminology correct. Keyword: "decriminalize". My temper is max'ed out on the mainstream media saying "legalize" (mainly when reporting on pot), as if Uncle Sam and the federal level laws suddenly disappeared. For all intents and purposes "legalized" qualifies as fake news. It is intentionally misleading. And if it's negligence, that's not any better.
- 0n0n0m0uz 8y agoWe should all congratulate drugs for winning the war.
- kingkawn 8y agoEven if the outcomes of drug use are undesirable the criminal justice system is not the way to mitigate them.
- Causality1 8y agoGood. Even if there were no benefits at all, there is zero constitutional justification for the government outlawing a private citizen from growing and consuming anything she or he pleases.