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If we were to make decision as voters, don't you think we should have some reliable idea about what the government is doing? What if the current administration
by kiba 16y ago
If we were to make decision as voters, don't you think we should have some reliable idea about what the government is doing?
What if the current administration is doing evil something behind the back of the electorate? How would we know about it?
You see, secrecy is a catch-22 proposition. If you're trying to do actual real work of tracking down terrorists, you don't want the whole world to know(at least until years later). But if you're doing something EVIL behind our back, the world have the right to know.
The cablegate? Hardly any reason to get angry over. It make the government looks good. But politicians are overreacting.
- loewenskind 16y agoWith the slight twist that if we didn't have all this secrecy going on we might not have engaged in the kind of behavior that made people decide it was worth forfeiting their very lives to strike at us.
- drivingmenuts 16y agoWith all due respect, the current problems with terrorism have roots that go much deeper than the recent activities of our government(s). A lot of, if not most of, the current tension in the Middle East dates back to just after WWII, when someone decided it would be a good idea to stick all the people that no one wanted (but wouldn't come right out and say it) in the middle of a bunch of people who were ill-prepared to absorb them (and didn't particularly want them, either). That pretty much paved the road to our current little slice of Middle Eastern hell.
- Daishiman 16y agoThe conflict with Israel is just a tiny fraction of the issues behind the Middle East problems. Much more substantial were the efforts of the US government to overthrow moderate regimes for hardlines who would support them, as well the UK's efforts to deliberately screw up the decolonization efforts by drawing up national boundaries with no regards to the inhabitants' will. It's complex, but it's ridiculously easy to see where things were wrong, and you don't need the hindsight either.
- jbooth 16y agoThanks. Don't leave out France, either, inventors of the dumbest system of government possibly in world history in Lebanon, and the proximate cause of about 30 years of civil war.
- Daishiman 16y agoFrance practically invented modern state-sponsored terrorism with what they did in Algeria.
- Semiapies 16y agoWe actually have an interesting topic, here - no particular need to start a long, all-consuming thread by throwing out a wildly-oversimplified bit of red meat.
- iuyhgthyujik 16y agoThe tension in the middle east dates back to when ug the cavemen decided the sun was god and zog the caveman decided the moon was god. Take any news report about the middle east and replace the names with cananites, babylonians, persions, egyptians, romans, etc - the story doesn't change. In fact if you read any books by Josephus - it sounds just like CNN (except better written)
- jacquesm 16y agoI'd say it goes back to the Balfour declaration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917
- Estragon 16y ago"If voting made any difference, it'd be illegal."
- Andrew_Quentin 16y agowho is that quote from?
- Estragon 16y agoChris Hedges said it near the end of his talk on The Death of the Liberal Class at the Sanctuary For Independent Media this Fall[1]. He attributed it to his brother-in-law, if I recall correctly. However, I am sure I've heard it before. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYCvSntOI5s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYCvSntOI5s
- Semiapies 16y agoIt's much older, as I've been hearing it for years.
- iuyhgthyujik 16y ago> doing evil something behind the back of the electorate? How would we know about it? I think the existence of an 'administration' and an 'electorate' pretty much guarantees that they are doing something evil behind your back.
- kiba 16y agoI don't believe in the possibility of an educated electorate or an electorate that can resist the temptation to vote itself money.
- Dove 16y agoIf you're trying to do actual real work of tracking down terrorists, you don't want the whole world to know(at least until years later). But if you're doing something EVIL behind our back, the world have the right to know. The main safeguard is rule of law. There's a whitelist of information that is allowed to be classified -- spelled out in http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526 . Information shall not be considered for classification unless its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause identifiable or describable damage to the national security in accordance with section 1.2 of this order, and it pertains to one or more of the following: (a) military plans, weapons systems, or operations; (b) foreign government information; (c) intelligence activities (including covert action), intelligence sources or methods, or cryptology; (d) foreign relations or foreign activities of the United States, including confidential sources; (e) scientific, technological, or economic matters relating to the national security; (f) United States Government programs for safeguarding nuclear materials or facilities; (g) vulnerabilities or capabilities of systems, installations, infrastructures, projects, plans, or protection services relating to the national security; or (h) the development, production, or use of weapons of mass destruction. You can't simply mark your shady activities "TOP SECRET". Not even the president has the authority to do that. That's an improper classification, and is illegal -- anyone who works with classified information should know that, and could be expected to report it. Between rule of law, a law that outlines which categories of things the government is allowed to keep secret, and the fact that even really secret programs of any significant size have to ultimately be staffed with lots of normal citizens, I think it's actually a pretty safe and sane system.
- jbooth 16y agoI could drive a truck through half of those clauses. Of course you can just mark your shady activities TOP SECRET. It's national security!