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Another scaremongering article from this author again. This author's company directly competes with surveillance and security companies from China. Official nu

Another scaremongering article from this author again. This author's company directly competes with surveillance and security companies from China. Official number is 13k [1], but people think those jaw dropping estimations from religious groups are more believable. [1] https://www.apnews.com/0e3b005d281345278ed470823096ec9b https://www.apnews.com/0e3b005d281345278ed470823096ec9b

learc83 7y ago
If you don't like the author. Ignore him. Here's a quote from the US Secretary of State: "We watch the massive human rights violations in Xinjiang where over a million people are being held in a humanitarian crisis that is the scale of what took place in the 1930s. And we see American businesses and their technology being used to help facilitate that activity from the Chinese government. It’s something worthy of thinking about."
- tepidandroid 7y ago
  The U.S Secretary of state, just like the entire current U.S administration, suffer from the same issue. A complete and utter lack of credibility.
  - learc83 7y ago
    So we agree it's not the writer making this up for personal gain then.
originldirgibl 7y ago
I don't know this guy specifically, but it's been reported by other sources. This is a real thing that's happening. I find the general Chinese apologism on this site strange. Even if it were 13k why would it not be an issue that China is placing people in concentration camps? Not even to get into the argument about the reliability of the 13k number because that's just laughable given literally every source that isn't China's government disagrees with that. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1KV1SU https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/... [2] https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1S925K https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1S925K [3] https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2019/03/290713.htm https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2019/03/290713.htm
- zachguo 7y ago
  There are people who have spent considerable amount of time in both the West and the East and are fed up with propaganda from both sides. I've been labelled as Chinese apologist, US spy, Russian troll, and Western separatists. How ironic is it?
- dang 7y ago
  There is not "general Chinese apologism" on HN. What there is, is divisiveness on China-related topics that is growing for social, geopolitical, and media reasons completely beyond the scope of this site. Moreover, the population on HN is majority Western (50% US, 30% Europe, 7% Australia/Canada, if I remember correctly), so views here are skewed in rather the opposite direction to what you suggest. HN users don't have to hold any particular views on these topics but they absolutely have to treat each other respectfully, including by not calling names (such as "Chinese apologism"), and nationalistic flamewar is not permitted. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - originldirgibl 7y ago
    Even if the population follows that distribution it doesn't mean the comments follow a homogonous reflection of the dominant opinion of the population. I apologize if the apologism comment went too far. It is my perception in reading HN comments, and is not meant to be a normative view of the facts, and especially not meant to be nationalist comment. You also did not add anything to the discussion by trying to call me out as "disrespectful." This just further derails the discussion. I don't know what the goal of your comment was, but to get the discussion back on track I'll just add more sources to bolster my position and let any substantive discussion follow: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-120000-muslim-uighurs-held-in-chinese-re-education-camps-report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-12000... https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/muslims-in-china-province-detained-in-re-education-camps-invasive-surveillance-on-say-reports/story-aEVi9tyhRAyrPBmPhjhCvL.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/muslims-in-china-p... https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/china-s-xinjiang-province-a-surveillance-state-unlike-any-the-world-has-ever-seen-a-1220174.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/china-s-xinjiang-... https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06gds2h https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06gds2h https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/28/a-summer-vacation-in-chinas-muslim-gulag/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/28/a-summer-vacation-in-ch... https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2018-06-20/reeducation-returns-china https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2018-06-20/ree... https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340 https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0... https://chinachange.org/2018/08/10/a-call-for-a-un-investigation-and-us-sanctions-on-the-human-rights-disaster-unfolding-in-xinjiang/ https://chinachange.org/2018/08/10/a-call-for-a-un-investiga...

learc83 7y ago

If you don't like the author. Ignore him. Here's a quote from the US Secretary of State: "We watch the massive human rights violations in Xinjiang where over a million people are being held in a humanitarian crisis that is the scale of what took place in the 1930s. And we see American businesses and their technology being used to help facilitate that activity from the Chinese government. It’s something worthy of thinking about."

tepidandroid 7y ago
The U.S Secretary of state, just like the entire current U.S administration, suffer from the same issue. A complete and utter lack of credibility.
- learc83 7y ago
  So we agree it's not the writer making this up for personal gain then.

originldirgibl 7y ago

I don't know this guy specifically, but it's been reported by other sources. This is a real thing that's happening. I find the general Chinese apologism on this site strange. Even if it were 13k why would it not be an issue that China is placing people in concentration camps? Not even to get into the argument about the reliability of the 13k number because that's just laughable given literally every source that isn't China's government disagrees with that. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1KV1SU https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/... [2] https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1S925K https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1S925K [3] https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2019/03/290713.htm https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2019/03/290713.htm

zachguo 7y ago
There are people who have spent considerable amount of time in both the West and the East and are fed up with propaganda from both sides. I've been labelled as Chinese apologist, US spy, Russian troll, and Western separatists. How ironic is it?
dang 7y ago
There is not "general Chinese apologism" on HN. What there is, is divisiveness on China-related topics that is growing for social, geopolitical, and media reasons completely beyond the scope of this site. Moreover, the population on HN is majority Western (50% US, 30% Europe, 7% Australia/Canada, if I remember correctly), so views here are skewed in rather the opposite direction to what you suggest. HN users don't have to hold any particular views on these topics but they absolutely have to treat each other respectfully, including by not calling names (such as "Chinese apologism"), and nationalistic flamewar is not permitted. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- originldirgibl 7y ago
  Even if the population follows that distribution it doesn't mean the comments follow a homogonous reflection of the dominant opinion of the population. I apologize if the apologism comment went too far. It is my perception in reading HN comments, and is not meant to be a normative view of the facts, and especially not meant to be nationalist comment. You also did not add anything to the discussion by trying to call me out as "disrespectful." This just further derails the discussion. I don't know what the goal of your comment was, but to get the discussion back on track I'll just add more sources to bolster my position and let any substantive discussion follow: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-120000-muslim-uighurs-held-in-chinese-re-education-camps-report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-12000... https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/muslims-in-china-province-detained-in-re-education-camps-invasive-surveillance-on-say-reports/story-aEVi9tyhRAyrPBmPhjhCvL.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/muslims-in-china-p... https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/china-s-xinjiang-province-a-surveillance-state-unlike-any-the-world-has-ever-seen-a-1220174.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/china-s-xinjiang-... https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06gds2h https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06gds2h https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/28/a-summer-vacation-in-chinas-muslim-gulag/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/28/a-summer-vacation-in-ch... https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2018-06-20/reeducation-returns-china https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2018-06-20/ree... https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340 https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0... https://chinachange.org/2018/08/10/a-call-for-a-un-investigation-and-us-sanctions-on-the-human-rights-disaster-unfolding-in-xinjiang/ https://chinachange.org/2018/08/10/a-call-for-a-un-investiga...