6 ms·

>> Observing that wealth has not made people happier, some economists have proposed that The fact that wealth and happiness are often mentioned together in art

>> Observing that wealth has not made people happier, some economists have proposed that The fact that wealth and happiness are often mentioned together in articles and books is a very strong indicator that they are related. The problem is that people who are greedy enough to actually acquire a good sum of money in this system are usually psychopaths. The problem with psychopaths is that their only pleasure in life is knowing that they are better than other people. Capitalism is built to make sure that psychopaths are never satisfied; there will always be someone who has more money. If you're not a psychopath and you manage to make a lot of money, then you will almost certainly be very happy because you won't care at all if a lot of other people are wealthier than you.

barking 7y ago
I can think of some well known entrepreneurs who could be said to have behaved in a psychopathic manner when younger, ruthlessly dealing with competitors, but then turned into philanthropists later. One name in particular jumps to mind, which I won't mention because it's just my opinion. But, generally speaking, how can one explain behaviour like that?
- lordnacho 7y ago
  > But, generally speaking, how can one explain behaviour like that? Physiological changes between youth and old age, in particular less testosterone. Positional changes, going from being single to having a wife and kids. Suddenly you're protecting their future instead of aggressively ensuring your own.
  - barking 7y ago
    That sounds plausible. There was one teacher I had who seemed to have a complete personality change after he nearly died (heart problem I'm pretty certain). He went from being demon* who specialised in humiliating students to being pleasant and easy-going. The first time I ever interacted with him was in front of the public when I did my very first bit of what might be termed work experience when he loudly proclaimed to all around that he was dealing with the "absolute pits here"
    - lordnacho 7y ago
      Yeah, a guy I worked with was known for crazy outbursts as well. Really mean behaviour, that sort of thing. After he got married and had a kid it mellowed a lot. And that's despite his frustrations with work being the same.
- badpun 7y ago
  Being a biggest, baddest MF in the business world, he now seeks to prove himself in a new field (filantropy and „saving the world”). I suspect it’s just as ego-driven, but lucikly this time not a big net-negative on the world.
- _emacsomancer_ 7y ago
  I can think of at least one entrepreneur turned philanthropist who is clearly still a psychopath. Billionaire philanthropists simply have large coffers of 'good PR' money; but this doesn't mean they're actually any less psychopathic than when they were in 'entrepreneur' mode.
brainfeed0 7y ago
People's Maslow Heirarchy of Needs need to be satisficed in order to not be stressing. I think the safety net of some European countries is a good model to emulate in many respects. Ideally, you want people happy enough to form long-term, stable pair-bonds and have kids.... no kids, there's no future.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
OneWordSoln 7y ago
Your second paragraph is mostly correct. Furthermore, the vast majority of people who acquire great wealth have done so by taking advantage of many, many others, from the workers that they pay as little as possible (e.g. Uber) to their customers whom they charge as much as possible (e.g. the Pharma corps). >> Capitalism is built to make sure that psychopaths are never satisfied; Although it happens all the time, it's not the nature of capitalism that makes it so, just the greedy potential of human beings. We each develop an inertia of life and capitalism (especially 2019's unfettered capitalism) definitely allows the rich to get richer, but that is not built into the system, just the majority of human beings. No, capitalism is also very good at letting those who earn a great deal of money share that money with those who have been less lucky in the roll of life's monetary dice. More simply put: systems designed/implemented by human beings are only as good as the human beings who manifest them. If they are callous, then the system will be callous, and that is precisely what we have today. >> The fact that wealth and happiness are often mentioned together in articles and books is a very strong indicator that they are related. No, that just indicates that most people don't understand the difference between pleasure and happiness. Pleasure is related to physical well-being -- i.e. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and the like -- and wealth is the easiest way to get any kind and amount of pleasure one desires. Happiness and/or its opposite is the accumulated results of our treatment of others; it results in a feeling that wells up inside of us. It is absolutely unrelated to any physical pleasure. At the most raw, basic level of our universe are the physics-level automatic systems but at the most sublime level (and only for human beings) there is the Law of Karma. Because we are endowed with free will and are required to live in groups to survive and prosper, the universe is designed with an automatic feedback mechanism to nudge us toward selfless cooperation and away from the selfish competition of our animal physicality. As such, we quite literally reap the feelings we sow in others. That is why wealth has no direct bearing on our happiness, although it is very negatively correlated with the tyrannical corporate execs who have reduced their workers to 'human resources' to be brutally bargained with to maximize the owners' profit. As surely as a person can be drunk on power or alcohol or drugs, one can be drunk on accruing wealth at the expense of others; in all instances, the hangover is unpleasant. If the intoxication leads to maltreatment of others, then that hangover will be a deep-seated unhappiness that can only be cured by creating fresh happiness in others; each day is a new day, i.e. "there's still time to change the road you're on". The problem is that the inertia of our lives combined with the general denial of the Law of Karma's existence usually leads the person to only dig the hole deeper. The entire purpose of human life is to rise above our mammalian competitive instincts and self-evolve ourselves and our societies into cooperative groups of humanitarians where we are obsessed with compassion for everyone. That such compassionate regard for the poor is almost non-existent in today's world societies is the source of much misery and unhappiness -- misery for the poor and unhappiness for the selfish, unfulfilled wealthy who callously disregard their ability to uplift their fellow man. There was a great story that popped up here (IIRC) about a successful health-care company whose owner was in the process of converting it to a non-profit. Because he had realized that his wealth was the direct result of his workers' efforts he out-of-the-blue gave large bonuses to ALL his employees (based upon seniority). That man gets it and his happiness should be held up as how capitalism is capable of enriching society.

barking 7y ago

I can think of some well known entrepreneurs who could be said to have behaved in a psychopathic manner when younger, ruthlessly dealing with competitors, but then turned into philanthropists later. One name in particular jumps to mind, which I won't mention because it's just my opinion. But, generally speaking, how can one explain behaviour like that?

lordnacho 7y ago
> But, generally speaking, how can one explain behaviour like that? Physiological changes between youth and old age, in particular less testosterone. Positional changes, going from being single to having a wife and kids. Suddenly you're protecting their future instead of aggressively ensuring your own.
- barking 7y ago
  That sounds plausible. There was one teacher I had who seemed to have a complete personality change after he nearly died (heart problem I'm pretty certain). He went from being demon* who specialised in humiliating students to being pleasant and easy-going. The first time I ever interacted with him was in front of the public when I did my very first bit of what might be termed work experience when he loudly proclaimed to all around that he was dealing with the "absolute pits here"
  - lordnacho 7y ago
    Yeah, a guy I worked with was known for crazy outbursts as well. Really mean behaviour, that sort of thing. After he got married and had a kid it mellowed a lot. And that's despite his frustrations with work being the same.
badpun 7y ago
Being a biggest, baddest MF in the business world, he now seeks to prove himself in a new field (filantropy and „saving the world”). I suspect it’s just as ego-driven, but lucikly this time not a big net-negative on the world.
_emacsomancer_ 7y ago
I can think of at least one entrepreneur turned philanthropist who is clearly still a psychopath. Billionaire philanthropists simply have large coffers of 'good PR' money; but this doesn't mean they're actually any less psychopathic than when they were in 'entrepreneur' mode.

brainfeed0 7y ago

People's Maslow Heirarchy of Needs need to be satisficed in order to not be stressing. I think the safety net of some European countries is a good model to emulate in many respects. Ideally, you want people happy enough to form long-term, stable pair-bonds and have kids.... no kids, there's no future.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

OneWordSoln 7y ago

Your second paragraph is mostly correct. Furthermore, the vast majority of people who acquire great wealth have done so by taking advantage of many, many others, from the workers that they pay as little as possible (e.g. Uber) to their customers whom they charge as much as possible (e.g. the Pharma corps). >> Capitalism is built to make sure that psychopaths are never satisfied; Although it happens all the time, it's not the nature of capitalism that makes it so, just the greedy potential of human beings. We each develop an inertia of life and capitalism (especially 2019's unfettered capitalism) definitely allows the rich to get richer, but that is not built into the system, just the majority of human beings. No, capitalism is also very good at letting those who earn a great deal of money share that money with those who have been less lucky in the roll of life's monetary dice. More simply put: systems designed/implemented by human beings are only as good as the human beings who manifest them. If they are callous, then the system will be callous, and that is precisely what we have today. >> The fact that wealth and happiness are often mentioned together in articles and books is a very strong indicator that they are related. No, that just indicates that most people don't understand the difference between pleasure and happiness. Pleasure is related to physical well-being -- i.e. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and the like -- and wealth is the easiest way to get any kind and amount of pleasure one desires. Happiness and/or its opposite is the accumulated results of our treatment of others; it results in a feeling that wells up inside of us. It is absolutely unrelated to any physical pleasure. At the most raw, basic level of our universe are the physics-level automatic systems but at the most sublime level (and only for human beings) there is the Law of Karma. Because we are endowed with free will and are required to live in groups to survive and prosper, the universe is designed with an automatic feedback mechanism to nudge us toward selfless cooperation and away from the selfish competition of our animal physicality. As such, we quite literally reap the feelings we sow in others. That is why wealth has no direct bearing on our happiness, although it is very negatively correlated with the tyrannical corporate execs who have reduced their workers to 'human resources' to be brutally bargained with to maximize the owners' profit. As surely as a person can be drunk on power or alcohol or drugs, one can be drunk on accruing wealth at the expense of others; in all instances, the hangover is unpleasant. If the intoxication leads to maltreatment of others, then that hangover will be a deep-seated unhappiness that can only be cured by creating fresh happiness in others; each day is a new day, i.e. "there's still time to change the road you're on". The problem is that the inertia of our lives combined with the general denial of the Law of Karma's existence usually leads the person to only dig the hole deeper. The entire purpose of human life is to rise above our mammalian competitive instincts and self-evolve ourselves and our societies into cooperative groups of humanitarians where we are obsessed with compassion for everyone. That such compassionate regard for the poor is almost non-existent in today's world societies is the source of much misery and unhappiness -- misery for the poor and unhappiness for the selfish, unfulfilled wealthy who callously disregard their ability to uplift their fellow man. There was a great story that popped up here (IIRC) about a successful health-care company whose owner was in the process of converting it to a non-profit. Because he had realized that his wealth was the direct result of his workers' efforts he out-of-the-blue gave large bonuses to ALL his employees (based upon seniority). That man gets it and his happiness should be held up as how capitalism is capable of enriching society.