6 ms·

Because if you can't FizzBuzz, you definitely aren't going to be able to pick up the codebase in a satisfactorily short amount of time. If you come in in gross

Because if you can't FizzBuzz, you definitely aren't going to be able to pick up the codebase in a satisfactorily short amount of time. If you come in in gross clothes and swear, you're not going to fit the company culture. If you're rude to your interviewer, you're not likely to be less rude to your other coworkers. etc.

DougWebb 7y ago
Two of those things is not like the other.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  They are all in the same category when you consider basic professionalism. Working is getting along in a social environment, not just coding.
dba7dba 7y ago
I agree about FizzBuzz. But how often do interviewees showing up with gross clothes, swear, or be rude to interviewer? I'd say almost 0?
- jerf 7y ago
  "I'd say almost 0?" It's definitely higher than that. It is a pretty easy thing to avoid, you'd think, but some people fail.
- bpyne 7y ago
  Funny that this was brought up. I agree fully that it's rare. But...a friend of mine was "den mother" for graduate students in a top 20 comp sci program. The students were often doctoral candidates but could also be MS students doing a thesis. A large part of her job was prepping them for interviews with companies like Google, MS, Oracle, etc. Here are a few gems she had to remind/inform them of. "Yes, you have to shower the day of an interview." "It's never acceptable to pull out your lunch and eat in the middle of the interview, please don't do it again." "Yes, you have to wear something other than the shirt you slept in."
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    If I was going to an interview with a company like that, I would want to know - will they reject me if I wear a suit? If so, what is safe to wear?
    - simplyluke 7y ago
      Will they reject you for that? Probably not. Would a lot of employees of tech companies (particularly west coast) interpret it as a lack of familiarity with the industry? Probably. Jeans and a button down or a button down and slacks seems pretty standard in my experience.
    - bpyne 7y ago
      It depended on the company. MS interviewers came in khaki slacks and buttoned down shirts. Google came in jeans with lots of ink and piercings on display. Part of my friend's responsibility was to give feedback to the interviewers. Her students were passing over MS to go to Google, despite MS offering significantly more for a salary. Their interviewers asked her for feedback to figure out why. She had to politely say that Google was seen as cooler. (The cooler impression wasn't just the image gained from the interviewers, it was the problems Google was trying to solve. But, the interviewers added to the company's image of "coolness".) She held this position probably a decade ago and left after a few years. Things may be different now.
- walshemj 7y ago
  I went to an interview in the UK (fancy add/marketing agency) and they (the interviewer) had such a dirty messed up t shirt on, that I would not wear to dig the garden.
  - skookumchuck 7y ago
    Interviewing goes both ways. The company is interviewing the candidate, and the candidate is interviewing the company.
    - arethuza 7y ago
      There is an asymmetry in the reaction though - being turned down by a company is regarded as just something that happens, turning down a company once you've had an offer seems to cause genuine shock.
      - gubbrora 7y ago
        Wouldn't that be more because people would expect the rejection to happen pre-offer if it's about anything other than compensation(turning down for compensation is normal, e specially with multiple offers)?
- dtech 7y ago
  Not being rude to the interviewer is to social norms and personality as FizzBuzz is to programming skills. It's so simple you wouldn't expect people interviewing to fail it, but it still happens.
sureaboutthis 7y ago
I've been programming for 35 years and I can't fizzbuzz cause I don't know what it is. Yes, I've heard about it before cause it's mentioned on forums, and I even looked it up once, but I always consider such things childish. (I honestly don't remember anything about it.) Ask me about an algorithm and I'm there but don't play games with me. EDIT: Just looked it up. Yep. A game. Now compare that to my years of accomplishments and you'll say asking me to write fizzbuzz childish, too.
- bvinc 7y ago
  Fizzbuzz isn't a trick questions that you have to have heard of. It's designed to be an EXTREMELY easy question, answerable by anyone with even a basic knowledge of programming. It's not a game. It's a way to weed out people that don't know anything. If you have been programming for 35 years, you'll probably be appalled by how easy it is. Look it up.
  - sureaboutthis 7y ago
    I never said it was a trick question. Where did you and the other guy come up with that? It may be easy but you would have to explain it to me if you were interviewing me. After looking up what it is, as I said I did, yes, I could do it easily but don't ask me to code your game "fizzbuzz" as if I would know what it was.
    - MikeTaylor 7y ago
      No-one remotely confident would ever fail a candidate for not knowing what "fizzbuzz" means. But any competent interviewer would fail a candidate who, having have "fizzbuzz" explained to them, could not implement it.
- CJefferson 7y ago
  You wouldn't be asked to "fizzbuzz". You would be asked to write an extremely trivial program, which would take you about 3 minutes. Also, if you have guaranteed years of experience, fizzbuzz isn't for you. However, a suprisingly large number of applicants who can write an impressive looking CV can't write it.
sidlls 7y ago
I cannot recall the last time I interviewed someone for a position other than intern who could not at least muddle through a FizzBuzz problem. I'm talking hundreds of candidates. The likelihood of a "lucky streak" as long as that if "can't FizzBuzz" is common (i.e. not an outlier) is small. Usually when I dig into a person claiming "can't FizzBuzz is common" the result is I find what they're calling "FizzBuzz" is nothing of the sort, but is actually a more tricky data structures or algorithms problem.
- toast0 7y ago
  I've gotten enough candidates who can't FizzBuzz to say you can expect to get at least a couple in a group of 100 candidates. More or less depending on what screening you do before interviews. There is definitely a second line above the simple FizzBuzz many more candidates would have a lot more trouble with two nested loops.
- Corrado 7y ago
  Several years ago I asked a potential programmer candidate what their favorite operating system was and they replied "MS Office". I couldn't end the interview quickly enough.
- itsdrewmiller 7y ago
  I have to assume you are doing some kind of very strict resume screening or your application form is behind a puzzle or something - I 100% guarantee if you post your job broadly and interview everyone who applies you will have a very bad fizz buzz rate (and probably go insane), and I believe that if you do filter but try to keep an open mind to non-traditional backgrounds you will have a pretty significant fizz buzz fail rate. (I too oversee the screening of hundreds of candidates out of thousands of applicants.)

DougWebb 7y ago

Two of those things is not like the other.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
They are all in the same category when you consider basic professionalism. Working is getting along in a social environment, not just coding.

dba7dba 7y ago

I agree about FizzBuzz. But how often do interviewees showing up with gross clothes, swear, or be rude to interviewer? I'd say almost 0?

jerf 7y ago
"I'd say almost 0?" It's definitely higher than that. It is a pretty easy thing to avoid, you'd think, but some people fail.
bpyne 7y ago
Funny that this was brought up. I agree fully that it's rare. But...a friend of mine was "den mother" for graduate students in a top 20 comp sci program. The students were often doctoral candidates but could also be MS students doing a thesis. A large part of her job was prepping them for interviews with companies like Google, MS, Oracle, etc. Here are a few gems she had to remind/inform them of. "Yes, you have to shower the day of an interview." "It's never acceptable to pull out your lunch and eat in the middle of the interview, please don't do it again." "Yes, you have to wear something other than the shirt you slept in."
- perl4ever 7y ago
  If I was going to an interview with a company like that, I would want to know - will they reject me if I wear a suit? If so, what is safe to wear?
  - simplyluke 7y ago
    Will they reject you for that? Probably not. Would a lot of employees of tech companies (particularly west coast) interpret it as a lack of familiarity with the industry? Probably. Jeans and a button down or a button down and slacks seems pretty standard in my experience.
  - bpyne 7y ago
    It depended on the company. MS interviewers came in khaki slacks and buttoned down shirts. Google came in jeans with lots of ink and piercings on display. Part of my friend's responsibility was to give feedback to the interviewers. Her students were passing over MS to go to Google, despite MS offering significantly more for a salary. Their interviewers asked her for feedback to figure out why. She had to politely say that Google was seen as cooler. (The cooler impression wasn't just the image gained from the interviewers, it was the problems Google was trying to solve. But, the interviewers added to the company's image of "coolness".) She held this position probably a decade ago and left after a few years. Things may be different now.
walshemj 7y ago
I went to an interview in the UK (fancy add/marketing agency) and they (the interviewer) had such a dirty messed up t shirt on, that I would not wear to dig the garden.
- skookumchuck 7y ago
  Interviewing goes both ways. The company is interviewing the candidate, and the candidate is interviewing the company.
  - arethuza 7y ago
    There is an asymmetry in the reaction though - being turned down by a company is regarded as just something that happens, turning down a company once you've had an offer seems to cause genuine shock.
    - gubbrora 7y ago
      Wouldn't that be more because people would expect the rejection to happen pre-offer if it's about anything other than compensation(turning down for compensation is normal, e specially with multiple offers)?
dtech 7y ago
Not being rude to the interviewer is to social norms and personality as FizzBuzz is to programming skills. It's so simple you wouldn't expect people interviewing to fail it, but it still happens.

sureaboutthis 7y ago

I've been programming for 35 years and I can't fizzbuzz cause I don't know what it is. Yes, I've heard about it before cause it's mentioned on forums, and I even looked it up once, but I always consider such things childish. (I honestly don't remember anything about it.) Ask me about an algorithm and I'm there but don't play games with me. EDIT: Just looked it up. Yep. A game. Now compare that to my years of accomplishments and you'll say asking me to write fizzbuzz childish, too.

bvinc 7y ago
Fizzbuzz isn't a trick questions that you have to have heard of. It's designed to be an EXTREMELY easy question, answerable by anyone with even a basic knowledge of programming. It's not a game. It's a way to weed out people that don't know anything. If you have been programming for 35 years, you'll probably be appalled by how easy it is. Look it up.
- sureaboutthis 7y ago
  I never said it was a trick question. Where did you and the other guy come up with that? It may be easy but you would have to explain it to me if you were interviewing me. After looking up what it is, as I said I did, yes, I could do it easily but don't ask me to code your game "fizzbuzz" as if I would know what it was.
  - MikeTaylor 7y ago
    No-one remotely confident would ever fail a candidate for not knowing what "fizzbuzz" means. But any competent interviewer would fail a candidate who, having have "fizzbuzz" explained to them, could not implement it.
CJefferson 7y ago
You wouldn't be asked to "fizzbuzz". You would be asked to write an extremely trivial program, which would take you about 3 minutes. Also, if you have guaranteed years of experience, fizzbuzz isn't for you. However, a suprisingly large number of applicants who can write an impressive looking CV can't write it.

sidlls 7y ago

I cannot recall the last time I interviewed someone for a position other than intern who could not at least muddle through a FizzBuzz problem. I'm talking hundreds of candidates. The likelihood of a "lucky streak" as long as that if "can't FizzBuzz" is common (i.e. not an outlier) is small. Usually when I dig into a person claiming "can't FizzBuzz is common" the result is I find what they're calling "FizzBuzz" is nothing of the sort, but is actually a more tricky data structures or algorithms problem.

toast0 7y ago
I've gotten enough candidates who can't FizzBuzz to say you can expect to get at least a couple in a group of 100 candidates. More or less depending on what screening you do before interviews. There is definitely a second line above the simple FizzBuzz many more candidates would have a lot more trouble with two nested loops.
Corrado 7y ago
Several years ago I asked a potential programmer candidate what their favorite operating system was and they replied "MS Office". I couldn't end the interview quickly enough.
itsdrewmiller 7y ago
I have to assume you are doing some kind of very strict resume screening or your application form is behind a puzzle or something - I 100% guarantee if you post your job broadly and interview everyone who applies you will have a very bad fizz buzz rate (and probably go insane), and I believe that if you do filter but try to keep an open mind to non-traditional backgrounds you will have a pretty significant fizz buzz fail rate. (I too oversee the screening of hundreds of candidates out of thousands of applicants.)