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Presumably some or many ufo sightings are highly classified military tests that any random military pilot or radar operator is not ever going know about or even
by steve19 7y ago
Presumably some or many ufo sightings are highly classified military tests that any random military pilot or radar operator is not ever going know about or even be told about after they sighted it.
Its even possible tests are done knowing other military pilots are in vicinity to guage their reaction to it.
To me this is the simplest explanation (if weather balloons and drones are ruled out).
- baddox 7y agoIt would make sense that secretive military aviation projects would purposefully fly near unsecretive unsuspecting military aircraft to determine how detectable they are. It also makes sense that the military would publicly embrace the UFO narrative as a way to continue concealing their secretive projects.
- fit2rule 7y agoIts also reasonable to understand the desire for people to describe these events in human terms, and ignore the possibility that we are not alone in the universe - especially since their technology appears to be far, far superior to anything we have at our disposal. However, no such conclusions can be made - either pro- or anti- the "But its Aliens" argument - since the entire subject is couched in dire secrecy, with a lot of people whose lives would change, drastically, if it were the case that these UFO's turn out to be non-human in origin.
- bdamm 7y agoThe assumption that people's lives would change requires scrutiny. For most I think it would be a promotion of Enquirer headlines to premiere news, but little else. SpaceX would soon become a public company. But what else? Life goes on, unaffected. People still would need to pay their taxes.
- mattlondon 7y agoI think it would change a lot of people's belief systems in a major way. E.g. how would the major organised religions cope with the revelation (pun intended) that there was life that originated off of Earth/outside of the garden of eden? For a lot of people who take religion seriously, I feel like this could be a major upset. It might not affect "day to day life" in terms of the lights staying on and there being food on the shelves, but there could be a significant personal impact on a lot of people which may lead to a lot of things like depression/substance-abuse/suicides/general-"fuck it, its the end end of world, I am going to <x>"-sentiment/etc that will have knock-on effects (e.g. not turning up for work, abandoning family/responsibilities, running away to live as a hermit in the woods, gun hoarding etc)
- fifnir 7y ago> how would the major organised religions cope with the revelation (pun intended) that there was life that originated off of Earth/outside of the garden of eden? Like they've dealt with every other scientific advancement that killed their beliefs. They will deny it as much and as long as they can until they will be forced to admit it, at which point "god" will shrink to an even meaningful pocket of scientific ignorance. Some of them will keep denying it forever
- JulianMorrison 7y agoThe Catholics address the question every so often. https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2014/may/14/pope-francis-baptise-martian-would-they-want-our-religions https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2014/may/14/po...
- dragonwriter 7y agoNot just us Catholics; I think the real big takeaway from that article is this: “Three years ago, a paper for the Royal Society found that roughly 90% of believers did not think they would suffer a crisis of faith should intelligent extraterrestrial life be discovered, though two-thirds of them believed other religions would have a crisis.” Nearly everyone is fine with this idea, but most everyone also thinks people with religious views different than their own will have trouble with it.
- fit2rule 7y agoCertainly, the rationale for spending $21Trillion on military superiority instead of investing it in a healthy society, would be minimised. If it turns out that aliens are on the planet and have advanced technology that could ruin us all, maybe the Pentagon and the Kremlin would find a reason to stop starving their own people for the sake of assumed dominance over the planet, and instead unite to either befriend, or defeat, the common alien friend/foe. One can imagine the reason all of these events are couched in such secrecy might be, indeed, militaristic hubris. Or, in other words, FOMO at a grand scale ..
- krageon 7y agoYou can just as easily argue the opposite. If the aliens are so much more advanced, maybe we need to spend even more in order to catch up. I'm not saying I think these things, I'm just trying to point out that your conclusion is not a given.
- close04 7y agoIf intelligent aliens get to our planet and have any kind of aggressive intentions no amount of spending would save us. It means they already have capabilities far beyond what we could achieve in a generation and proved them by just getting to us.
- krageon 7y ago> It means they already have capabilities far beyond what we could achieve It certainly means that they have those capabilities as pertains to travel, but it is not a given that they would have those capabilities in a military sense. Of course the argument can be made that you can convert that kind of power into a weapon, but I'd hazard to say that a haphazard conversion does not in fact impart upon you a godlike ability to ignore everything we could possibly do. I'm definitely not arguing that this means we should increase military spending. I think that is fundamentally not a great idea for us in the first place. Instead, I am arguing that while the things you are talking about are widely used as sci-fi tropes and held as beliefs by a lot of people, I do not think they stand on their own merits.
- bhouston 7y agoOccam's Razor. It is likely not aliens and more likely man made because it isn't that advanced compared to what we can currently do. It is like 5 to 10 years ahead of publiclt disclosed tech. It is either US or Chinese skunkworks and given it was in US airspace I doubt the Chinese would do this. Also it has to be US because otherwise military brass would be freaking out the Chinese are penitrating us airspace with advanced tech. Thus it is a us skunkworks project. It is probably just advanced drone techonology. Probably really cool tech.
- ConfusedDog 7y agoHow is that Occam's Razor? This is the same guesswork as aliens or foreign countries. I just see a lot of people using "Occam's Razor" with their subjective theories and the term is giving me a headache.
- krapp 7y agoIt being aliens would require completely rewriting physics as we understand it, because physics as we understand it does not allow for gravity manipulation or FTL. Occaam's Razor claims that terrestrial technology is more likely than extraterrestrial because it relies on fewer unproven assumptions, namely the existence of extraterrestrial life, its presence on Earth, and everything we know about physics being wrong, despite the math somehow working out to describe the universe incredibly well.
- mklingen 7y agoOccam's Razor: postulate as few as possible new entities to explain an event. Aliens causing UFOs not only postulates that aliens exist, but that they're intelligent, and have visited Earth. That's a lot of new entities we have to consider. On the other hand we know foreign governments exist. We know foreign governments test new aircraft. So the only entity we have to assume here is that an aircraft with these properties exists. That said I think there are other alternatives that are even more likely: that these sightings are sensor malfunctions or natural phenomena that have been blown out of proportion by popular myth and deliberate disinformation -- (which is certainly the case with all other UFO sightings).
- usgroup 7y agoYeah but I’d rather it was aliens :)
- mrb 7y agoThis is the simplest explanation, indeed. In fact UFO sightings sharply increased starting in the 1940s which corresponds exactly to the period when military aviation research and experimentation took off.
- notahacker 7y agoThough of course a lot of those sightings also consisted of objects which supposedly resembled saucers, which matched media mischaracterisations of a particularly famous UFO sighting and an older trend in pulp sci-fi... (I quite like the idea of aliens drawing ideas from their spacecraft from our popular culture as a storyline, but not as an explanation for the phenomena!)
- krapp 7y agoAnd, prior to the meme of the "flying saucer," UFO sightings often involved airships[0]. And stories of abduction by aliens often involved those aliens claiming to be from Mars or Venus before it was commonly known that those planets didn't harbor life, much less advanced civilizations. And the archetypal "grey alien" didn't really become the template for modern alien abduction stories until Whitley Strieber popularized them in a book - many descriptions of alien encounters until that point were of "Nordic" human type aliens. So yeah, either aliens are being careful not to appear more advanced than popular culture would allow (maybe to the point of appearing as angels and demons to humans when their view of reality was entirely dominated by religion and not science) or much of the UFO phenomenon is basically a meme. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_airship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_airship
- jk27277 7y agoKindly consider https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_ov...
- burk96 7y agoConsider the first citation on that wiki article: https://web.archive.org/web/20121214172708/http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/nuremburg-ufo-battle-debunked/ https://web.archive.org/web/20121214172708/http://ancientali... It seems much more likely that these assumed acts of God were a misunderstood natural phenomenon rather than extraterrestrial beings who we have yet to capture on camera. Considering how closely the depictions of the event match pictures of sun dogs leaves it as the most reasonable solution.
- adrianN 7y agoThe UFOs display fantastical properties that are lightyears ahead of state of the art fighters. I find it a bit hard to believe that some secret project can be that much better than what the public knows without the knowledge leaking somehow.
- Florin_Andrei 7y agoSo in that case they might be something akin to Luke's apparition at the end of The Last Jedi. I don't mean anything supernatural.
- Pyxl101 7y agoFighters are all designed to carry humans. Humans fall unconscious under high G-forces. Imagine a drone fighter. It could turn tighter and accelerate drastically faster than a human-carrying fighter. The US has lots of boring drones, but perhaps there is a secret drone fighter program. It would surprise me somewhat if the US weren't working on something like this, perhaps with a goal of keeping it secret until it needs to be deployed operationally. Plenty of military technologies have been kept secret for decades, such as the SR-71 and the spy satellites on which the Hubble Space Telescope was based. On that note, did you know that the Hubble was basically an extra spy satellite donated to NASA by the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), and the US had a fleet of them pointed downwards toward earth? For more on this, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-11_Kennen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-11_Kennen So, consider: what kind of reconnaissance satellites does the US have today, that resulted in the retirement of the "Crystal" series? (Obviously something digital) Did the US's investment in supersonic spycraft end with the SR-71? If the US were going to design such a craft today, would it have a pilot or would it be autonomous? On the other hand, if this were a top secret US technology, then I suspect all of the people who observed these phenomena would simply have been sworn to secrecy. I doubt it would be treated as a UFO and I doubt these officers would be speaking publicly about it. Unless this is all some kind of cover for the program. Who knows!
- Zancarius 7y agoYou reminded me of a quote my father once told me: "I fully expect to see UFOs in the future, and they'll be real. They'll also have USAF emblems on the side." For decades, he worked as a civil servant in the DoD as an instrumentation and test engineer on a few well known weapons programs (and some not so much). I think he based his comment on the trajectory military technology was taking, as he commented similarly to you (referring to Pyxl101) regarding the human problem. i.e. if you remove the humans, you can save weight on life support, and you can do things you otherwise can't when you're limited to keeping the pilot alive and (mostly) functioning. Part of me wants to believe he might've seen what we'd now call UFOs, but I'm confident that's wishful thinking. His remarks were offered based on his own experiences, and I'm sure he extrapolated from there. Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if some of your predictions did turn out to be true in the near future. Your last statement also reminded me of Project Mogul[1] and the use of UFOs as a cover story (or rather not, as the case might be). In all likelihood, the Roswell "UFO crash" was an errant Mogul balloon--a project shrouded in secrecy to some degree or another, mostly because we knew the Soviets had stolen our technology but we didn't want them to know we had ways of detecting their tests. I don't believe the USAF instigated the UFO theory, and neither do I believe the air force particularly cared. After all, if I understand the timeline correctly, it wasn't until the mid/late 1970s when the UFO researcher Stanton Friedman began perpetuating the myth, long after the actual event in 1947. As a cover story, that would've come far too late to be useful enough to cover for Project Mogul. To an extent--at least in the early days--I suspect early UFO "research" was largely the outcome of a means to pursue fame or money via book sales and speaking engagements more than a theory perpetuated by the government. Now, that's not to say that the government isn't using it now that UFOs have long been established in popular culture. That may very well be a strong possibility. Aside: I once attended a talk with my father that Mr. Friedman gave in the 1990s on UFOs. I also recall Friedman was made somewhat uncomfortable with the fact my father was not only aware of Project Blue Book but had access to the archives when he was at the air force academy. The brief exchange between the two was made when Mr. Friedman asked the audience if anyone had heard of the project and were familiar with (IIRC) volume 13. Friedman quickly changed subjects away from "government cover up" for reasons that escape me. :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul
- mannykannot 7y agoAnother explanation, which would fit with current developments, might be that these are computer-generated artifacts. Increasingly, the picture we are being shown is generated by processing raw sensor data - for example, just compare raw (or partially processed) weather radar data to the processed maps you see in forecasts. Two recent trends -- the synthesis of views from multiple sensors of different types, and their presentation as virtual reality -- have come together in devices such as the F-35 Helmet-Mounted Display [1]. I would guess that this level of interpretation of data and synthesis of images presents an increased scope for artifact generation, and the presentation makes it seem more real. [1] https://www.f35.com/about/capabilities/helmet https://www.f35.com/about/capabilities/helmet
- Anarch157a 7y agoIIRC, some SR-71 crews had a hobby of local newspapers on towns they usually flew over, to see which ones reported UFO sightings the day after the missions.