7 ms·

While I am saddened by this decision I hope he now is able to get proper medical care and fight the case against extradition. As long as he is not on London str

While I am saddened by this decision I hope he now is able to get proper medical care and fight the case against extradition. As long as he is not on London streets the US can't just snatch him up. [1] [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case

Gaelan 8y ago
Has the US ever “snatched up” someone from the middle of London?
- hhh 8y ago
  [redacted]
- cyphar 8y ago
  Not in London, but GP linked two examples (one in Macedonia and one in Italy). There are also many other examples of CIA-run extraordinary rendition[1]. However in these cases they were both done with co-operation from the local police (or military) and government as part of the US "war on terror" (abductions without local government approval have also happened in the past -- Mossad did this in the 1960s[2] -- but I don't recall a US example). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture
  - primroot 8y ago
    Where is the cooperation here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case I really fail to see it.
    - cyphar 8y ago
      In the second sentence: > The case was picked by the international media as one of the better-documented cases of extraordinary rendition carried out in a joint operation by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Italian Military Intelligence and Security Service (SISMI) [emphasis added] A joint operation implies there was co-operation. I'm not saying the US has never conducted extraordinary rendition without local government involvement, just that the two examples aren't like that.
      - primroot 8y ago
        You are right then. I missed it because I was focusing on the way the Italian judiciary handled the case afterwards, which indicates the clandestine nature of the co-operation.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    Going to throw out there that they've done the same in Sweden as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
- freeflight 8y ago
  They've done it in countries to which they are way less "aligned" than the UK [0] and the UK has historically been the US's strongest partner on all things "national security/terrorism". In that context, I wouldn't really be surprised if it's happened before, tho the blowback potential, if it should become public, would be massive so it will probably be kept under extremely tight wraps. [0] https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordinary-facts-about-cia-extraordinary-rendition-and-secret-detention https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordina...
  - monocasa 8y ago
    For whatever reason, the UK has been extremely against extraordinary rendition despite being aligned with the US. It was a decent sized scandal that rendition flights had even just refueled in Diego Garcia (a UK territory). These sorts of things can't be looked at in terms of broad 'alignment'.
    - inflatableDodo 8y ago
      Come on, they also went through Prestwick Airport, just outside Glasgow. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-stay-off-us-plane-at-prestwick-airport-bt7r9nz0z https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-stay-off-u... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/29/msps-demand-action-over-use-of-scottish-airports-for-rendition https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/29/msps-demand-... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22680924 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22680924
      - monocasa 8y ago
        Word, I didn't see that last year. So yes, even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Not sure why that's worthy of "come on" like it invalidates my point.
        inflatableDodo 8y ago
        >even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Yep, Members of the Scottish Parliament have been pissed off. Scottish police were blocked from doing anything however. Westminster unfortunately rides roughshod over both of them and has been a supporter of the rendition flights, as noted in the article from The Times. >"The CIA has been accused of using Scottish airports to facilitate the transfer of terrorism suspects to overseas black sites for interrogation and torture. >A report by Westminster’s intelligence and security committee (ISC) says that MI5 or MI6 was involved in at least 50 rendition operations."
netcan 8y ago
There may not be and extradition case. It doesn't seem like Sweden is still keen, and on balance, the US mightn't want him either at this point. It's not a guaranteed conviction. The president has an embarrassing YouTube reel where he "loves WikiLeaks" 50 times. It'll drag the contents of contentious leaks back into the spotlight. It could be more convenient to let it go.
- wybiral 8y ago
  > The president has an embarrassing YouTube reel where he "loves WikiLeaks" 50 times. It'll drag the contents of contentious leaks back into the spotlight. It could be more convenient to let it go. But America isn't a dictatorship so the decision isn't exactly up to him. There's a whole legal system operating under their own framework that the president doesn't have much control over.
  - roywiggins 8y ago
    He can always issue a pardon, which would end the entire thing.
    - michaelcampbell 8y ago
      Thanks; today I learned the US President can pardon a non-US-citizen. Your post made me go look it up. I would never have thought...
      - roywiggins 8y ago
        The President can pardon all crimes against the United States- the citizenship of the perpetrator doesn't come into it.
        wybiral 8y ago
        Only federal crimes though, so if a state picked up any charges against him the president can't do much about it.
fit2rule 8y ago
Corollary: As long as he is in a maximum security prison controlled by imperial powers, the public will not be aware of the brainwashing/programming/coercion he is going to be subjected to .. Will we see the same Assange in 50 weeks? This is more than enough time for the masters of MK ULTRA to subvert his will and turn him into a puppet.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  I'm trying to decide if this line of thinking is scary or wondrous.
  - fit2rule 8y ago
    I think its wondrous that anyone things its okay to ignore Guantanamo and the hundred other CIA black sites where this kind of activity is the norm. Its also scary.
    - michaelcampbell 8y ago
      If this is happening at G'mo, it sucks. I haven't heard of any unbelievable turns of faith out of there that brainwashing would cause.
      - fit2rule 8y ago
        Of course you wouldn't know - this is why these sites are operated clandestinely, and you - the American people - will never know what your government is doing in your name at these sites. Just like the people of the UK don't know what is being done, in the name of their ruler, in sites such as Belmarsh. Those who find this incredible, might want to look - for themselves - at Belmarsh's long history of being a used as a programming site. The idea of Assange becoming the subject of mind control procedures in Belmarsh is, unfortunately, not un-realistic. The UK and its master, the USA, has a long history of these kinds of activities in cases where it is politically expedient .. if this is unreal to you, I suggest you have a milquetoast view of the intelligence community. Read the Wikileaks.

Gaelan 8y ago

Has the US ever “snatched up” someone from the middle of London?

hhh 8y ago
[redacted]
cyphar 8y ago
Not in London, but GP linked two examples (one in Macedonia and one in Italy). There are also many other examples of CIA-run extraordinary rendition[1]. However in these cases they were both done with co-operation from the local police (or military) and government as part of the US "war on terror" (abductions without local government approval have also happened in the past -- Mossad did this in the 1960s[2] -- but I don't recall a US example). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture
- primroot 8y ago
  Where is the cooperation here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case I really fail to see it.
  - cyphar 8y ago
    In the second sentence: > The case was picked by the international media as one of the better-documented cases of extraordinary rendition carried out in a joint operation by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Italian Military Intelligence and Security Service (SISMI) [emphasis added] A joint operation implies there was co-operation. I'm not saying the US has never conducted extraordinary rendition without local government involvement, just that the two examples aren't like that.
    - primroot 8y ago
      You are right then. I missed it because I was focusing on the way the Italian judiciary handled the case afterwards, which indicates the clandestine nature of the co-operation.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Going to throw out there that they've done the same in Sweden as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
freeflight 8y ago
They've done it in countries to which they are way less "aligned" than the UK [0] and the UK has historically been the US's strongest partner on all things "national security/terrorism". In that context, I wouldn't really be surprised if it's happened before, tho the blowback potential, if it should become public, would be massive so it will probably be kept under extremely tight wraps. [0] https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordinary-facts-about-cia-extraordinary-rendition-and-secret-detention https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordina...
- monocasa 8y ago
  For whatever reason, the UK has been extremely against extraordinary rendition despite being aligned with the US. It was a decent sized scandal that rendition flights had even just refueled in Diego Garcia (a UK territory). These sorts of things can't be looked at in terms of broad 'alignment'.
  - inflatableDodo 8y ago
    Come on, they also went through Prestwick Airport, just outside Glasgow. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-stay-off-us-plane-at-prestwick-airport-bt7r9nz0z https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-stay-off-u... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/29/msps-demand-action-over-use-of-scottish-airports-for-rendition https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/29/msps-demand-... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22680924 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22680924
    - monocasa 8y ago
      Word, I didn't see that last year. So yes, even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Not sure why that's worthy of "come on" like it invalidates my point.
      - inflatableDodo 8y ago
        >even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Yep, Members of the Scottish Parliament have been pissed off. Scottish police were blocked from doing anything however. Westminster unfortunately rides roughshod over both of them and has been a supporter of the rendition flights, as noted in the article from The Times. >"The CIA has been accused of using Scottish airports to facilitate the transfer of terrorism suspects to overseas black sites for interrogation and torture. >A report by Westminster’s intelligence and security committee (ISC) says that MI5 or MI6 was involved in at least 50 rendition operations."

netcan 8y ago

There may not be and extradition case. It doesn't seem like Sweden is still keen, and on balance, the US mightn't want him either at this point. It's not a guaranteed conviction. The president has an embarrassing YouTube reel where he "loves WikiLeaks" 50 times. It'll drag the contents of contentious leaks back into the spotlight. It could be more convenient to let it go.

wybiral 8y ago
> The president has an embarrassing YouTube reel where he "loves WikiLeaks" 50 times. It'll drag the contents of contentious leaks back into the spotlight. It could be more convenient to let it go. But America isn't a dictatorship so the decision isn't exactly up to him. There's a whole legal system operating under their own framework that the president doesn't have much control over.
- roywiggins 8y ago
  He can always issue a pardon, which would end the entire thing.
  - michaelcampbell 8y ago
    Thanks; today I learned the US President can pardon a non-US-citizen. Your post made me go look it up. I would never have thought...
    - roywiggins 8y ago
      The President can pardon all crimes against the United States- the citizenship of the perpetrator doesn't come into it.
      - wybiral 8y ago
        Only federal crimes though, so if a state picked up any charges against him the president can't do much about it.

fit2rule 8y ago

Corollary: As long as he is in a maximum security prison controlled by imperial powers, the public will not be aware of the brainwashing/programming/coercion he is going to be subjected to .. Will we see the same Assange in 50 weeks? This is more than enough time for the masters of MK ULTRA to subvert his will and turn him into a puppet.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
I'm trying to decide if this line of thinking is scary or wondrous.
- fit2rule 8y ago
  I think its wondrous that anyone things its okay to ignore Guantanamo and the hundred other CIA black sites where this kind of activity is the norm. Its also scary.
  - michaelcampbell 8y ago
    If this is happening at G'mo, it sucks. I haven't heard of any unbelievable turns of faith out of there that brainwashing would cause.
    - fit2rule 8y ago
      Of course you wouldn't know - this is why these sites are operated clandestinely, and you - the American people - will never know what your government is doing in your name at these sites. Just like the people of the UK don't know what is being done, in the name of their ruler, in sites such as Belmarsh. Those who find this incredible, might want to look - for themselves - at Belmarsh's long history of being a used as a programming site. The idea of Assange becoming the subject of mind control procedures in Belmarsh is, unfortunately, not un-realistic. The UK and its master, the USA, has a long history of these kinds of activities in cases where it is politically expedient .. if this is unreal to you, I suggest you have a milquetoast view of the intelligence community. Read the Wikileaks.