17 ms·

The high latency questions are only from people who really don't understand the industry. The question most analysts in the industry ask are about how they plan

The high latency questions are only from people who really don't understand the industry. The question most analysts in the industry ask are about how they plan to be profitable.

rurp 8y ago
"People who don't understand the industry" describes nearly all potential customers. I don't think this refutes the GPs point.
- jessriedel 8y ago
  Most potential customers don't know the difference between bandwidth and latency, they just think of it as speed.
  - shaklee3 8y ago
    I disagree. I think people equate bandwidth with speed, because that's what all of the commercials and marketing materials say. Latency is hardly ever mentioned.
    - jessriedel 8y ago
      Put the average consumer on a gigabit connection with 5 sec of latency and ask them how fast it is.
JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
Yes people have been burned by HughesNet and garbage like that. But it won’t take much to educate them, people can understand the difference. A simple graph showing the ping times and people will get it.
- shaklee3 8y ago
  I suppose this argument works really well on HN. how many people do you think know or care about a ping time? if they did, don't you think we would see all of the commercials for broadband bragging about their latency instead of bandwidth? Streaming media dominates the internet today, and that's unaffected by high latency.
  - 7e 8y ago
    Steaming media is particularly poor application for Starlink, which is starved for bandwidth.
    - shaklee3 8y ago
      I agree, but that's the opposite of what people think.
    - drewmol 8y ago
      ATSC 3.0 is a possible avenue for offloading some streaming traffic. It seems that the consumer hostile packages we've come to love are taking shape and 2020 may see some adoption... https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/atsc-3-0-where-we-stand/ https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/atsc-3-0-where-we-stand/
RHSeeger 8y ago
Is there a writeup anywhere what the bandwidth and latency is likely to look like? I assumed the latency would be worse that that of a land line.
- Rebelgecko 8y ago
  It depends. If you're connecting to a data center across the street, the latency will probably be worse. If you're connecting to one on the other side of the world (or somewhere where the packets have to take a more circuitous route), the latency might be better. The satellites aren't that high up so latency won't be a huge issue. I think bandwidth limitations will be more problematic. The Earth is really big, and there's not really a good way with LEO orbits to focus your satellites over urban vs rural areas. IOW you can focus coverage on lower latitudes but not really certain longitudes. IIRC previous FCC filings said each satellite would have ~20 Gbps of bandwidth. That'll be great if you're in a rural area, and I think the gigabit speeds some people are hoping for are actually possible in certain situations. However a lot of people think that they're going to be able to replace the Wifi router in their apartment with a Starlink antenna... I don't think that will be practical any time soon. I'm not an RF person but I doubt there's enough spectrum for each satellite to have tens of thousands of users simultaneously. edit: also, like with 5G the signal quality is going to be crappier when it is rainy or cloudy.
- robszumski 8y ago
  It's going to be a similar situation to cell phones. When you purchase the product, you know that it will be slow some times outside of your control, but that's the trade off for being able to get connectivity almost anywhere. With no hassle as long as you can see the sky. On your boat? Sure! On your farm 30 miles from anything? Sure! It will be interesting to see if they geo-lock the base stations or will allow you to move them and then re-calibrate/re-register your location for load balancing.
  - londons_explore 8y ago
    There will need to be some level of geo-locking, since the price variation between poor/rich countries will likely be 10x
drivingmenuts 8y ago
Being profitable is their problem (I can purchase a connection from someone else), but latency is something I have to worry about.
imtringued 8y ago
High latency has been the dealbreaker for satellite internet. No one wants to use satellite internet if they can avoid it.

The high latency questions are only from people who really don't understand the industry. The question most analysts in the industry ask are about how they plan to be profitable.

rurp 8y ago

"People who don't understand the industry" describes nearly all potential customers. I don't think this refutes the GPs point.

jessriedel 8y ago
Most potential customers don't know the difference between bandwidth and latency, they just think of it as speed.
- shaklee3 8y ago
  I disagree. I think people equate bandwidth with speed, because that's what all of the commercials and marketing materials say. Latency is hardly ever mentioned.
  - jessriedel 8y ago
    Put the average consumer on a gigabit connection with 5 sec of latency and ask them how fast it is.

JohnJamesRambo 8y ago

Yes people have been burned by HughesNet and garbage like that. But it won’t take much to educate them, people can understand the difference. A simple graph showing the ping times and people will get it.

shaklee3 8y ago
I suppose this argument works really well on HN. how many people do you think know or care about a ping time? if they did, don't you think we would see all of the commercials for broadband bragging about their latency instead of bandwidth? Streaming media dominates the internet today, and that's unaffected by high latency.
- 7e 8y ago
  Steaming media is particularly poor application for Starlink, which is starved for bandwidth.
  - shaklee3 8y ago
    I agree, but that's the opposite of what people think.
  - drewmol 8y ago
    ATSC 3.0 is a possible avenue for offloading some streaming traffic. It seems that the consumer hostile packages we've come to love are taking shape and 2020 may see some adoption... https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/atsc-3-0-where-we-stand/ https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/atsc-3-0-where-we-stand/

RHSeeger 8y ago

Is there a writeup anywhere what the bandwidth and latency is likely to look like? I assumed the latency would be worse that that of a land line.

Rebelgecko 8y ago
It depends. If you're connecting to a data center across the street, the latency will probably be worse. If you're connecting to one on the other side of the world (or somewhere where the packets have to take a more circuitous route), the latency might be better. The satellites aren't that high up so latency won't be a huge issue. I think bandwidth limitations will be more problematic. The Earth is really big, and there's not really a good way with LEO orbits to focus your satellites over urban vs rural areas. IOW you can focus coverage on lower latitudes but not really certain longitudes. IIRC previous FCC filings said each satellite would have ~20 Gbps of bandwidth. That'll be great if you're in a rural area, and I think the gigabit speeds some people are hoping for are actually possible in certain situations. However a lot of people think that they're going to be able to replace the Wifi router in their apartment with a Starlink antenna... I don't think that will be practical any time soon. I'm not an RF person but I doubt there's enough spectrum for each satellite to have tens of thousands of users simultaneously. edit: also, like with 5G the signal quality is going to be crappier when it is rainy or cloudy.
robszumski 8y ago
It's going to be a similar situation to cell phones. When you purchase the product, you know that it will be slow some times outside of your control, but that's the trade off for being able to get connectivity almost anywhere. With no hassle as long as you can see the sky. On your boat? Sure! On your farm 30 miles from anything? Sure! It will be interesting to see if they geo-lock the base stations or will allow you to move them and then re-calibrate/re-register your location for load balancing.
- londons_explore 8y ago
  There will need to be some level of geo-locking, since the price variation between poor/rich countries will likely be 10x

drivingmenuts 8y ago

Being profitable is their problem (I can purchase a connection from someone else), but latency is something I have to worry about.

imtringued 8y ago

High latency has been the dealbreaker for satellite internet. No one wants to use satellite internet if they can avoid it.