5 ms·

Ha! That would make a great story. Mormons already have a hollowed out mountain[1] but at least ostensibly it's full of genealogical records not plutonium. (Als

Ha! That would make a great story. Mormons already have a hollowed out mountain[1] but at least ostensibly it's full of genealogical records not plutonium. (Also I'm a Mormon.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite_Mountain_(Utah) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite_Mountain_(Utah)

blhack 7y ago
Why so much work into storing genealogical records?
- crooked-v 7y ago
  Mormon belief is that baptism is one of the few strict requirement for entry into Heaven, but that it can also be performed for the dead by volunteer proxies. Even the most obstinate sinners and nonbelievers will gain entry into the lowest-but-still-pleasant level of Heaven if they haven't committed the unpardonable sin[1]... so long as they've been baptized, in person or by proxy. Combine those premises and it becomes an obvious moral imperative to gather as much historical genological information as possible to perform proxy baptisms for as many deceased people as possible. Of course, this presumption of religious axioms also has a history of upsetting people of other religions, and the extensive information-gathering involved often uses borderline unethical methods, such as the various geneology research service websites that are run in one way or another by the LDS Church and include terms of service that let them use the info you piece together however they like. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin#Mormonism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin#Mormonism
  - sk5t 7y ago
    The unpardonable sin seems quite... vaguely specified, and open to endless debate. What sin is a sin against the Holy Ghost? What sin is not?
    - grahamburger 7y ago
      In Mormon culture it's understood to be something you can only do if you've had life experiences that should convey extraordinary faith. (IMO GP makes a bigger deal of this particular quirk of Mormon doctrine than is needed for the topic, fwiw.) Judas Iscariot is commonly referenced as an example of someone who as a disciple of Jesus should have believed in His divinity but betrayed Him. Most Mormons aren't concerned about accidentally committing an unpardonable sin, and most teaching in the Mormon church focuses on the idea that all sin is forgivable because of Jesus' atonement, with scant mention of the idea that there might be sins that could be unforgivable. (Note that despite commenting on this thread and being a Mormon I'm hardly an examplary Mormon in a variety of ways. It's rare that a topic comes up on HN that I know much about though, so may as well contribute some info in the spirit of satisfying intellectual curiosity!)
      - mirimir 7y ago
        I'm not Mormon, but I was married to one. I got that I was safe as long as I never believed. But that once you believe and then renounce, you're at least at risk. Or maybe that was belief as documented by baptism.
        DoctorOetker 7y ago
        and here I was thinking Roco's Basilisk was the original
        crooked-v 7y ago
        Roko's Basilisk is just a technology-flavored reinvention of Pascal's wager: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager
        mirimir 7y ago
        Sure, but "feigning belief" is not "belief". I mean, any deity worth believing in would know whether you believed or not. So they'd also know if you really believed, and then renounced. It's like manslaughter vs premeditated murder.
- grahamburger 7y ago
  Mormons believe that some religious ordinances (like baptism) are necessary for salvation and that if a person isn't baptized while alive then a baptism can be performed for them after death. Members of the church are encouraged to research their own family history and perform these ordinances for their deceased ancestors.

blhack 7y ago

Why so much work into storing genealogical records?

crooked-v 7y ago
Mormon belief is that baptism is one of the few strict requirement for entry into Heaven, but that it can also be performed for the dead by volunteer proxies. Even the most obstinate sinners and nonbelievers will gain entry into the lowest-but-still-pleasant level of Heaven if they haven't committed the unpardonable sin[1]... so long as they've been baptized, in person or by proxy. Combine those premises and it becomes an obvious moral imperative to gather as much historical genological information as possible to perform proxy baptisms for as many deceased people as possible. Of course, this presumption of religious axioms also has a history of upsetting people of other religions, and the extensive information-gathering involved often uses borderline unethical methods, such as the various geneology research service websites that are run in one way or another by the LDS Church and include terms of service that let them use the info you piece together however they like. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin#Mormonism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin#Mormonism
- sk5t 7y ago
  The unpardonable sin seems quite... vaguely specified, and open to endless debate. What sin is a sin against the Holy Ghost? What sin is not?
  - grahamburger 7y ago
    In Mormon culture it's understood to be something you can only do if you've had life experiences that should convey extraordinary faith. (IMO GP makes a bigger deal of this particular quirk of Mormon doctrine than is needed for the topic, fwiw.) Judas Iscariot is commonly referenced as an example of someone who as a disciple of Jesus should have believed in His divinity but betrayed Him. Most Mormons aren't concerned about accidentally committing an unpardonable sin, and most teaching in the Mormon church focuses on the idea that all sin is forgivable because of Jesus' atonement, with scant mention of the idea that there might be sins that could be unforgivable. (Note that despite commenting on this thread and being a Mormon I'm hardly an examplary Mormon in a variety of ways. It's rare that a topic comes up on HN that I know much about though, so may as well contribute some info in the spirit of satisfying intellectual curiosity!)
    - mirimir 7y ago
      I'm not Mormon, but I was married to one. I got that I was safe as long as I never believed. But that once you believe and then renounce, you're at least at risk. Or maybe that was belief as documented by baptism.
      - DoctorOetker 7y ago
        and here I was thinking Roco's Basilisk was the original
        crooked-v 7y ago
        Roko's Basilisk is just a technology-flavored reinvention of Pascal's wager: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager
        mirimir 7y ago
        Sure, but "feigning belief" is not "belief". I mean, any deity worth believing in would know whether you believed or not. So they'd also know if you really believed, and then renounced. It's like manslaughter vs premeditated murder.
grahamburger 7y ago
Mormons believe that some religious ordinances (like baptism) are necessary for salvation and that if a person isn't baptized while alive then a baptism can be performed for them after death. Members of the church are encouraged to research their own family history and perform these ordinances for their deceased ancestors.