9 ms·

Instagram Is the “Top Showcase Platform for Counterfeiters” on the Web

58 points by juokaz 7y ago

cat199 7y ago
"With internet sales of fakes accounting for an estimated $30.3 billion in losses to luxury brands each year," much like the music piracy debate, this presumes the purchasers of the counterfeits would actually purchase the genuine goods at full price, which of course is not actually true..
- tracker1 7y ago
  More so... there's a HUGE difference for your average ($70k/year USD) household income not buying a $10-20 CD, and not buying a $10,000 handbag. I'd say in this case it's FAR more inflated and that at LEAST 90% of those lost sales wouldn't even consider the actual, full price products in question.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    If the people purchasing the products are at least partially purchasing it based on the ability of the product to send a signal that its owner is not part of the average $70k/year household, then there can be a loss of value simply by having $70k/year households have counterfeit ones.
    - empath75 7y ago
      Seems like the smart thing to do would be to sell luxury goods that are actually luxury and not cheap imported shit with a brand slapped on it.
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        It can be easy to mimic the good without it being the same quality, and it still results in devaluing the brand since it’s now associated with a cheaper good.
  - jrockway 7y ago
    If everyone has a fashion accessory that looks like it cost $10,000, that devalues it for the people that actually spent $10,000. I think that is how the loss figures should be calculated. (I know it sounds like "boo hoo", but I'd rather not debate that.)
    - JudgeWapner 7y ago
      I wonder about this too from the perspective of luxury brands that have long-been espoused in hip-hop and rap money-worshipping culture. Sure it was probably an initial boon to business having Crystal and Louis Vuitton repeatedly incorporated into famous performers' lyrics. But that would seemingly have the effect of devaling the brand for those who traditionally bought the brand and would likely not want to be associated with hip-hop culture.
  - mrybczyn 7y ago
    Another interesting contrast: - the media industry's "lost revenue" is actually driving more demand - because those that pirate the media talk about it, and the word of mouth gets around - and legimitate purchases follow. "there's no such thing as bad news". - the luxury industry's "lost revenue" is actually reducing demand - actual rich people don't want to buy the authentic $10,000 purse anymore, because all the poor people have it already...
    - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
      I think you're right to some extent but on your second point the reason the rich people buy brands, with the brand clearly present, is just to say "i can afford to 'waste' money on this". Having poor people clamour to emulate them is surely part of the narcissism for some? They want people to try to buy the same stuff as it supports the "people want to be me" notion.
- ummonk 7y ago
  Arguably the loss to the brand comes from the cheapening of the product due to people buying counterfeits making it seem less exclusive since too many people have what appears to be the product.
css 7y ago
This is not an Instagram-only issue. Search any major marketplace for luxury brand names and you will see fakes represent nearly all of the top results across Amazon, eBay, etc. I never understood why the level of policing was so low, especially when the brand names are used in product listings.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  These counterfeiters are running major business operations and it blows my mind that they're largely ignored by the platforms. If you have a few minutes check out r/fashionreps where you can find: - Instructions for finding an agent(!) to purchase from China on your behalf - Coupons - Detailed checklists for avoiding U.S. customs/import fees - Photos posted for crowdsourced "QC" to make sure a purchased will pass as legit
  - notfromhere 7y ago
    They play dumb and make money, that's why.
ungzd 7y ago
Not surprising, since recent hype around luxury clothing brands was formed in Instagram. Checked now number of people I know who follows accounts of these brands: gucci - 3, versace - 0, louisvuitton - 4, dior - 2. None of them can afford their products and they aren't especially interested in fashion design. What these companies did to achieve that level of marketing? It's probably much more effective and insane than traditional "glossy magazines".
nodesocket 7y ago
It’s so bad, that I refuse to buy anything advertised on Instagram after getting burned a few times. Most of the products are just drop shipping from China (poor quality) with good “millennial marketing”, while others are just flat out scams. Facebook seems to be doing zero about it.
- r00fus 7y ago
  You buy directly from Instagram? Or is this "go buy here" link? Inaction is a choice on the part of FB.
ArtDev 7y ago
Step 1) fresh account with a catfish photo of Chinese girl starts following you. No photos yet. Step 2) After a few months, every photo on the account is of questionable products. I don't just follow anyone who starts following me now.
FireBeyond 7y ago
There's a Kickstarter project for a magnetic compass and protractor set (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1285153000/magcon-the-most-versatile-and-portable-design-tool https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1285153000/magcon-the-m...) which looks pretty cool, backed, and shipping in August of this year. I've seen no less than _FIFTY_ fake sites selling it "today" for the last six months on IG, using the same videos from the Kickstarter. Reporting does nothing. They're all also hugely pumped by bots (most have five digits of comments).
vorpalhex 7y ago
I've noticed that on a lot of these counterfeit ads, there's now a mess of comments: "Buy this same item cheaper on platform X! Lowest price ever!". Seems not all the counterfeiters want to spring for ads!
rchaud 7y ago
This sounds like the modern version of having Disqus comments sections overrun with spam comments pitching Prada bags, Air Jordan shoes, etc. This kind of comment spam was huge on blogs in the late 2000s, before social media sites centralized all that traffic to their comments sections. I wonder if it's an age thing for me (I'm 34), but I would never consider buying anything I saw on a random Instagram account. Even the sponsored posts from influencers pitching say, workout apparel or pre-workout, are from no-name companies I don't trust, especially given the fly-by-night, dropship-from-AliExpress nature of such businesses.
- alexpetralia 7y ago
  This sort of misses the point of influencer marketing. You wouldn't _see it_ unless you subscribed to the influencer. It wouldn't be a "random" influencer _to you_. Everyone has their role models, their influencers. It's hard for us to understand how others could like some influencers - and they probably to ours. But everyone has their own influencer - and they influence. [Edit] This is not a defense of the products influencers sell. That's independent of their persuasive ability, often.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    Do we all have our influencers? People pretending to be our friend who are really selling us out shilling product?? Role models aren't "influencers" in the general case.
    - theNJR 7y ago
      Influencer is such a stupid word, but we are all influenced by others. "Famous" people, commenters on Hacker News (I think I'm going to buy a cow after this [0]), and friends can all sway a purchase choice. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19724328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19724328
      - alexpetralia 7y ago
        It is unfortunately a very stupid word.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cma 7y ago
It isn't a counterfeit if the buyers know it is fake.

58 points by juokaz 7y ago

"With internet sales of fakes accounting for an estimated $30.3 billion in losses to luxury brands each year," much like the music piracy debate, this presumes the purchasers of the counterfeits would actually purchase the genuine goods at full price, which of course is not actually true..

tracker1 7y ago
More so... there's a HUGE difference for your average ($70k/year USD) household income not buying a $10-20 CD, and not buying a $10,000 handbag. I'd say in this case it's FAR more inflated and that at LEAST 90% of those lost sales wouldn't even consider the actual, full price products in question.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  If the people purchasing the products are at least partially purchasing it based on the ability of the product to send a signal that its owner is not part of the average $70k/year household, then there can be a loss of value simply by having $70k/year households have counterfeit ones.
  - empath75 7y ago
    Seems like the smart thing to do would be to sell luxury goods that are actually luxury and not cheap imported shit with a brand slapped on it.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      It can be easy to mimic the good without it being the same quality, and it still results in devaluing the brand since it’s now associated with a cheaper good.
- jrockway 7y ago
  If everyone has a fashion accessory that looks like it cost $10,000, that devalues it for the people that actually spent $10,000. I think that is how the loss figures should be calculated. (I know it sounds like "boo hoo", but I'd rather not debate that.)
  - JudgeWapner 7y ago
    I wonder about this too from the perspective of luxury brands that have long-been espoused in hip-hop and rap money-worshipping culture. Sure it was probably an initial boon to business having Crystal and Louis Vuitton repeatedly incorporated into famous performers' lyrics. But that would seemingly have the effect of devaling the brand for those who traditionally bought the brand and would likely not want to be associated with hip-hop culture.
- mrybczyn 7y ago
  Another interesting contrast: - the media industry's "lost revenue" is actually driving more demand - because those that pirate the media talk about it, and the word of mouth gets around - and legimitate purchases follow. "there's no such thing as bad news". - the luxury industry's "lost revenue" is actually reducing demand - actual rich people don't want to buy the authentic $10,000 purse anymore, because all the poor people have it already...
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    I think you're right to some extent but on your second point the reason the rich people buy brands, with the brand clearly present, is just to say "i can afford to 'waste' money on this". Having poor people clamour to emulate them is surely part of the narcissism for some? They want people to try to buy the same stuff as it supports the "people want to be me" notion.
ummonk 7y ago
Arguably the loss to the brand comes from the cheapening of the product due to people buying counterfeits making it seem less exclusive since too many people have what appears to be the product.

css 7y ago

This is not an Instagram-only issue. Search any major marketplace for luxury brand names and you will see fakes represent nearly all of the top results across Amazon, eBay, etc. I never understood why the level of policing was so low, especially when the brand names are used in product listings.

elliekelly 7y ago
These counterfeiters are running major business operations and it blows my mind that they're largely ignored by the platforms. If you have a few minutes check out r/fashionreps where you can find: - Instructions for finding an agent(!) to purchase from China on your behalf - Coupons - Detailed checklists for avoiding U.S. customs/import fees - Photos posted for crowdsourced "QC" to make sure a purchased will pass as legit
- notfromhere 7y ago
  They play dumb and make money, that's why.

ungzd 7y ago

Not surprising, since recent hype around luxury clothing brands was formed in Instagram. Checked now number of people I know who follows accounts of these brands: gucci - 3, versace - 0, louisvuitton - 4, dior - 2. None of them can afford their products and they aren't especially interested in fashion design. What these companies did to achieve that level of marketing? It's probably much more effective and insane than traditional "glossy magazines".

nodesocket 7y ago

It’s so bad, that I refuse to buy anything advertised on Instagram after getting burned a few times. Most of the products are just drop shipping from China (poor quality) with good “millennial marketing”, while others are just flat out scams. Facebook seems to be doing zero about it.

r00fus 7y ago
You buy directly from Instagram? Or is this "go buy here" link? Inaction is a choice on the part of FB.

ArtDev 7y ago

Step 1) fresh account with a catfish photo of Chinese girl starts following you. No photos yet. Step 2) After a few months, every photo on the account is of questionable products. I don't just follow anyone who starts following me now.

FireBeyond 7y ago

There's a Kickstarter project for a magnetic compass and protractor set (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1285153000/magcon-the-most-versatile-and-portable-design-tool https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1285153000/magcon-the-m...) which looks pretty cool, backed, and shipping in August of this year. I've seen no less than _FIFTY_ fake sites selling it "today" for the last six months on IG, using the same videos from the Kickstarter. Reporting does nothing. They're all also hugely pumped by bots (most have five digits of comments).

vorpalhex 7y ago

I've noticed that on a lot of these counterfeit ads, there's now a mess of comments: "Buy this same item cheaper on platform X! Lowest price ever!". Seems not all the counterfeiters want to spring for ads!

rchaud 7y ago

This sounds like the modern version of having Disqus comments sections overrun with spam comments pitching Prada bags, Air Jordan shoes, etc. This kind of comment spam was huge on blogs in the late 2000s, before social media sites centralized all that traffic to their comments sections. I wonder if it's an age thing for me (I'm 34), but I would never consider buying anything I saw on a random Instagram account. Even the sponsored posts from influencers pitching say, workout apparel or pre-workout, are from no-name companies I don't trust, especially given the fly-by-night, dropship-from-AliExpress nature of such businesses.

alexpetralia 7y ago
This sort of misses the point of influencer marketing. You wouldn't _see it_ unless you subscribed to the influencer. It wouldn't be a "random" influencer _to you_. Everyone has their role models, their influencers. It's hard for us to understand how others could like some influencers - and they probably to ours. But everyone has their own influencer - and they influence. [Edit] This is not a defense of the products influencers sell. That's independent of their persuasive ability, often.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Do we all have our influencers? People pretending to be our friend who are really selling us out shilling product?? Role models aren't "influencers" in the general case.
  - theNJR 7y ago
    Influencer is such a stupid word, but we are all influenced by others. "Famous" people, commenters on Hacker News (I think I'm going to buy a cow after this [0]), and friends can all sway a purchase choice. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19724328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19724328
    - alexpetralia 7y ago
      It is unfortunately a very stupid word.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cma 7y ago

It isn't a counterfeit if the buyers know it is fake.