5 ms·

Well, it's kids playing make-believe, and in a physically active way, I'm all for it.

modzu 7y ago
“If someone says we are playing, it strips away everything we made, it strips away the reality,” said Ms. Aarniomaki. it looks like playing to me as well, and not sure why the community would see that as a problem. even professional sports players know they are playing a game. an interesting and unusual perspective for sure.
- radiorental 7y ago
  I wonder if something was lost in translation, if that read " it strips away the illusion" then the component of pretending in this type of play makes sense. I guess much in the same sense that people would probably not be amused if you ran around a Comic Con telling everyone this is just make believe.
  - mises 7y ago
    > I guess much in the same sense that people would probably not be amused if you ran around a Comic Con telling everyone this is just make believe. And yet, this is what an outsider would think (as someone who does not go but has friends who do). Some people would call tinkering with computers "playing", though my spending years on it resulted in a career path. I don't see the issue with "playing". At some point, if you're not doing it for a pay off, that's what it is, and that's fine.
    - lopmotr 7y ago
      It doesn't even need a potential career path. Especially now that many people can be unemployed for life and still survive, being able to enjoy an unproductive hobby is itself a useful goal.
      - mises 7y ago
        > many people can be unemployed for life and still survive Unless you mean housewiving, no one can be unemployed for life (save perhaps welfare queens). I still consider housewiving to be a job; it is quite a bit of work. To what are you referring?
        1000units 7y ago
        Housewiving is more of a hobby until you have children.
        wemdyjreichert 7y ago
        Which most housewives have.
        lopmotr 7y ago
        In my country, you can. I expect most developed western countries are the same. They won't let people starve to death. There's always a safety net of free food and housing no matter how destitute you are. I guess that's what a welfare queen is. But you could also call it enjoying the utopia of a world where productivity is much greater than what's needed to sustain our lives. Whether you're forced into that by being unemployable or by choice, a hobby could be much more satisfying than watching TV all day.
  - distances 7y ago
    > I wonder if something was lost in translation, if that read " it strips away the illusion" then the component of pretending in this type of play makes sense. Yes something was lost. In Finnish there are different words for children's make-believe plays ("leikkiä") and sports/adult games ("pelata"). Your example of comic-con is spot on, I think.
    - FakeComments 7y ago
      Given your comment about the two words in Finnish, I think the comment about comic cons has it backwards: > “If someone says we are playing, it strips away everything we made, it strips away the reality,” said Ms. Aarniomaki. She’s objecting to being compared to comics instead of soccer, hence “the reality” being stripped — you’re accusing what they view as akin to gymnastics as being mere fantasy.
      - distances 7y ago
        I'm not sure if I got you right -- a comic convention wouldn't be called with the make-believe word. That would be intentionally belittling if adults (or teenagers, for that matter) are attending. It's used only for small children's plays.
- michaelt 7y ago
  not sure why the community would see that as a problem If someone is learning martial arts, you might see that as a demanding sport, for tough serious athletes, demanding discipline, hard work and self-control. Or you might see it as playing at being Bruce Lee. Hiiii-Ya! Needless to say, the former perspective implies more respect for the people doing it! But there's not a bright line between 'serious' activities and non-serious ones - and hence, not much a sport can do to choose where on the spectrum they lie.
  - close04 7y ago
    It depends on the level of skill required to master the sport and the level at which you're performing. Some sports take a lot more skill than others and mastering those demands more respect. And it can be that you're just playing Bruce Lee by throwing your arms and legs all over the place.
  - wemdyjreichert 7y ago
    I'd say there's a bit of a difference between martial arts and a toy pony. I know martial artists who can break a dozen cinder bricks with an elbow; that's a serious pursuit. I'd say there is a serious difference between that and riding a toy stick. This extends to many other sports and activities: you can practice at a serious level or an amateur one. The difference here is that I see no serious level for this. Same thing with comics, which I saw some one else mention earlier. I guess if the kids are having fun, fine. This does seem incredibly weird, but I guess it's between them and their parents. However, I don't understand this demand to be taken seriously. It's a hobby; they do it for fun, and that's fine.
    - lmm 7y ago
      > I know martial artists who can break a dozen cinder bricks with an elbow; that's a serious pursuit. I'd say there is a serious difference between that and riding a toy stick. What difference would that be? Real-world application? No-one hires martial artists for demolition work. They're both recreational activities. Doing them well is difficult enough that your ability can be (and is) assessed competitively. Seems much the same to me (at least, if the competition results are consistent between judges).
- szemet 7y ago
  There are analogies for keeping similar illusion alive, like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling "The matches have predetermined outcomes[11] to heighten entertainment value[12] and all combative maneuvers are executed with the full cooperation of those involved...These facts were once kept highly secret but are now a widely accepted open secret. To promote and sustain the willing suspension of disbelief by maintaining an aura of verisimilitude, the performing company avoids discussing the true nature of the performance in official media" And these are adults. These girls may continue their hobbies in adulthood too (like most people keep playing the games they like at older age...)
  - distances 7y ago
    Indeed, hobby horsing seems to have judges and scoring so in that sense it definitely feels much more serious a sport than show wrestling is. Gymnastics vs. a theater play might be a close analogy.
    - crooked-v 7y ago
      My go-to comparison for pro wrestling is stunt performers, since most of stage wrestling is stunt performing wrapped in the aesthetic of a fight. It may not be a "real" competition, but it's certainly a skilled and physically strenuous performance.
- lmm 7y ago
  I find it frustrating that BDSM folk seem to have settled on "play" as the standard terminology. These activities are purely recreational, sure, but when something is a big part of your life, when you spend a lot of time and effort honing your craft and performing to the best of your ability, it feels dismissive to call it "play". I also do long-distance cycling, which is just as much of a purely recreational activity (even when competing for points). But no-one calls that "play".
  - icebraining 7y ago
    I'm not seeing it; Cristiano Ronaldo, Kevin Durant and Novak Djokovic all make millions playing.
    - lmm 7y ago
      It would be weird (and dismissive) to describe their activities as just "playing" though; "playing football" or "playing tennis" yes, but we think of those quite differently from "playing". At least I do.
  - ska 7y ago
    I think this is inconsistently used across different activities and geographical regions. I'm thinking of instances where things like "lets go play in the dirt" for doing off road motorsports were common. Also very common usage for sports, people "play" some sports, "compete" in others.
flybrand 7y ago
Agreed - those are both great components of active play.
doctorRetro 7y ago
Yep. I see this shared on FB every few months with the usual take of "LOL, WhAt aRE tHesE KiDS dOiNG?" Well, they're being active in a social environment, and having fun. And I can't find anything wrong with that.
pvorb 7y ago
This actually looks like a lot of fun.

“If someone says we are playing, it strips away everything we made, it strips away the reality,” said Ms. Aarniomaki. it looks like playing to me as well, and not sure why the community would see that as a problem. even professional sports players know they are playing a game. an interesting and unusual perspective for sure.

radiorental 7y ago
I wonder if something was lost in translation, if that read " it strips away the illusion" then the component of pretending in this type of play makes sense. I guess much in the same sense that people would probably not be amused if you ran around a Comic Con telling everyone this is just make believe.
- mises 7y ago
  > I guess much in the same sense that people would probably not be amused if you ran around a Comic Con telling everyone this is just make believe. And yet, this is what an outsider would think (as someone who does not go but has friends who do). Some people would call tinkering with computers "playing", though my spending years on it resulted in a career path. I don't see the issue with "playing". At some point, if you're not doing it for a pay off, that's what it is, and that's fine.
  - lopmotr 7y ago
    It doesn't even need a potential career path. Especially now that many people can be unemployed for life and still survive, being able to enjoy an unproductive hobby is itself a useful goal.
    - mises 7y ago
      > many people can be unemployed for life and still survive Unless you mean housewiving, no one can be unemployed for life (save perhaps welfare queens). I still consider housewiving to be a job; it is quite a bit of work. To what are you referring?
      - 1000units 7y ago
        Housewiving is more of a hobby until you have children.
        wemdyjreichert 7y ago
        Which most housewives have.
      - lopmotr 7y ago
        In my country, you can. I expect most developed western countries are the same. They won't let people starve to death. There's always a safety net of free food and housing no matter how destitute you are. I guess that's what a welfare queen is. But you could also call it enjoying the utopia of a world where productivity is much greater than what's needed to sustain our lives. Whether you're forced into that by being unemployable or by choice, a hobby could be much more satisfying than watching TV all day.
- distances 7y ago
  > I wonder if something was lost in translation, if that read " it strips away the illusion" then the component of pretending in this type of play makes sense. Yes something was lost. In Finnish there are different words for children's make-believe plays ("leikkiä") and sports/adult games ("pelata"). Your example of comic-con is spot on, I think.
  - FakeComments 7y ago
    Given your comment about the two words in Finnish, I think the comment about comic cons has it backwards: > “If someone says we are playing, it strips away everything we made, it strips away the reality,” said Ms. Aarniomaki. She’s objecting to being compared to comics instead of soccer, hence “the reality” being stripped — you’re accusing what they view as akin to gymnastics as being mere fantasy.
    - distances 7y ago
      I'm not sure if I got you right -- a comic convention wouldn't be called with the make-believe word. That would be intentionally belittling if adults (or teenagers, for that matter) are attending. It's used only for small children's plays.
michaelt 7y ago
not sure why the community would see that as a problem If someone is learning martial arts, you might see that as a demanding sport, for tough serious athletes, demanding discipline, hard work and self-control. Or you might see it as playing at being Bruce Lee. Hiiii-Ya! Needless to say, the former perspective implies more respect for the people doing it! But there's not a bright line between 'serious' activities and non-serious ones - and hence, not much a sport can do to choose where on the spectrum they lie.
- close04 7y ago
  It depends on the level of skill required to master the sport and the level at which you're performing. Some sports take a lot more skill than others and mastering those demands more respect. And it can be that you're just playing Bruce Lee by throwing your arms and legs all over the place.
- wemdyjreichert 7y ago
  I'd say there's a bit of a difference between martial arts and a toy pony. I know martial artists who can break a dozen cinder bricks with an elbow; that's a serious pursuit. I'd say there is a serious difference between that and riding a toy stick. This extends to many other sports and activities: you can practice at a serious level or an amateur one. The difference here is that I see no serious level for this. Same thing with comics, which I saw some one else mention earlier. I guess if the kids are having fun, fine. This does seem incredibly weird, but I guess it's between them and their parents. However, I don't understand this demand to be taken seriously. It's a hobby; they do it for fun, and that's fine.
  - lmm 7y ago
    > I know martial artists who can break a dozen cinder bricks with an elbow; that's a serious pursuit. I'd say there is a serious difference between that and riding a toy stick. What difference would that be? Real-world application? No-one hires martial artists for demolition work. They're both recreational activities. Doing them well is difficult enough that your ability can be (and is) assessed competitively. Seems much the same to me (at least, if the competition results are consistent between judges).
szemet 7y ago
There are analogies for keeping similar illusion alive, like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling "The matches have predetermined outcomes[11] to heighten entertainment value[12] and all combative maneuvers are executed with the full cooperation of those involved...These facts were once kept highly secret but are now a widely accepted open secret. To promote and sustain the willing suspension of disbelief by maintaining an aura of verisimilitude, the performing company avoids discussing the true nature of the performance in official media" And these are adults. These girls may continue their hobbies in adulthood too (like most people keep playing the games they like at older age...)
- distances 7y ago
  Indeed, hobby horsing seems to have judges and scoring so in that sense it definitely feels much more serious a sport than show wrestling is. Gymnastics vs. a theater play might be a close analogy.
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    My go-to comparison for pro wrestling is stunt performers, since most of stage wrestling is stunt performing wrapped in the aesthetic of a fight. It may not be a "real" competition, but it's certainly a skilled and physically strenuous performance.
lmm 7y ago
I find it frustrating that BDSM folk seem to have settled on "play" as the standard terminology. These activities are purely recreational, sure, but when something is a big part of your life, when you spend a lot of time and effort honing your craft and performing to the best of your ability, it feels dismissive to call it "play". I also do long-distance cycling, which is just as much of a purely recreational activity (even when competing for points). But no-one calls that "play".
- icebraining 7y ago
  I'm not seeing it; Cristiano Ronaldo, Kevin Durant and Novak Djokovic all make millions playing.
  - lmm 7y ago
    It would be weird (and dismissive) to describe their activities as just "playing" though; "playing football" or "playing tennis" yes, but we think of those quite differently from "playing". At least I do.
- ska 7y ago
  I think this is inconsistently used across different activities and geographical regions. I'm thinking of instances where things like "lets go play in the dirt" for doing off road motorsports were common. Also very common usage for sports, people "play" some sports, "compete" in others.

flybrand 7y ago

Agreed - those are both great components of active play.

doctorRetro 7y ago

Yep. I see this shared on FB every few months with the usual take of "LOL, WhAt aRE tHesE KiDS dOiNG?" Well, they're being active in a social environment, and having fun. And I can't find anything wrong with that.

pvorb 7y ago

This actually looks like a lot of fun.